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Tivo's business outlook.

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by nuraman00, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. Nov 12, 2018 #1 of 167
    nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    Reading the forums the past few months, there seems to be a less enthusiastic outlook towards Tivo's business outlook.

    Is this assessment true?

    What are some of the causes of this, from when there was a more positive outlook?

    If this is the case, what can they do about it, to change it?
     
    ydc likes this.
  2. Nov 12, 2018 #2 of 167
    XIBM

    XIBM Member

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    They have recently lost some patent lawsuits so their patent license revenue is threatened. With the movement to IP traditional cable seems limited.
     
  3. Nov 12, 2018 #3 of 167
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Well-Known Member

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    The retail CableCARD DVR market is obviously a dying business, though TiVo does essentially have a monopoly on it, which they should to be able to milk for a few more years. Their MSO DVR business seems to be doing okay, but how long that will last in the age of cord-cutting and changing technology is unclear.

    The cord-cutting trend is an opportunity for TiVo in the OTA DVR market, but unfortunately there is a lot more competition there, which leads to lower profits. TiVo's big problem is that it doesn't seem to be able to get all of the OTT apps that it needs to really make it a cord-cutter's one box the way Amazon's DVR is likely going to be.

    What I think TiVo should have done is used Linux/Android-based apps for their platform. It probably would have made it much easier to port apps over from Android TV or Amazon Fire TV.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  4. Nov 12, 2018 #4 of 167
    OrangeCrush

    OrangeCrush Member

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    I think they're basically healthy, but I don't see how they grow long term. They could've been what Roku is today, but that ship has sailed.

    > What I think TiVo should have done is used Linux/Android-based apps for their platform. It probably would have made it much easier to port apps over from Android TV or Amazon Fire TV.

    I think post-Bolt, they're going to transition the whole TiVo platform to software on a custom Android box built by manufacturing partners.
     
  5. Nov 12, 2018 #5 of 167
    Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    You realize that TiVos run Linux as their O/S right?

    What they DID was use the Smart TV platform that Opera provides, so any app on the average smart TV can be ported easily to TiVo. The problem is that the services don’t update the Smart TV apps as often as they do the Apple, Roku and Android ports. All these devices run Linux, but different flavors and with different APIs, particular around UI integration
     
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  6. Nov 12, 2018 #6 of 167
    Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo Active Member

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    I believe TiVo's best days could well lie ahead, but they need to quit messing around with the dying cable industry and focus on growth.The global digital OTA market is very large (10x the US market) and there are fewer issues with reception (because of both superior technology choice and well-engineered network design). The global mobile market is huge and operators are just beginning to get their heads around 5G and video services. Content choices are absolutely exploding and improved personalized discovery is urgently needed. No reason why TiVo can't lead the charge into this brave new world.
     
  7. Nov 12, 2018 #7 of 167
    tommiet

    tommiet Member

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    I'm new to Tivo (again) and believe its on its last leg.... But no different than any other DVR. Moving the storage to the cloud is just around the corner and that will kill TIVO and many other DVR's.

    I do like my Bolt and mini's..... but understand they have a limit life. Just hate the crap the Charter provides.
     
  8. Nov 12, 2018 #8 of 167
    smark

    smark Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it would be easy but it's a bit too bad that Hydra wasn't Android based just solely because of that considering Hulu for example has only updated select models of LG and Samsung TVs to the new experience.
     
  9. Nov 12, 2018 #9 of 167
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Well-Known Member

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    So then why is Amazon coming out with a DVR now? Things don't change just to change, things change if there is an advantage to that change. The truth is that there are many advantages to local storage over the cloud. I remember a few years ago, tech experts were predicting that by now personal computers and smartphones would no longer have hard drives because everything would be stored in the cloud. There will be a market for DVRs well into the future, TiVo just needs to figure out how to capture more of that market.
     
    nuraman00 and Mikeguy like this.
  10. Nov 12, 2018 #10 of 167
    just4tivo

    just4tivo Active Member

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    As Lee Iacocca said decades ago... either lead, follow, or get out of the way.

    TiVo has a one in three chance of getting it right. Time will tell.
     
  11. Nov 12, 2018 #11 of 167
    OrangeCrush

    OrangeCrush Member

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    An Android version of Hydra was being worked on (or planned) as of early 2017, but I haven't heard what came of that. Not sure if this died with Mavrik or it's still part of the roadmap, but that would be one path forward for the future of TiVo and IPTV.
     
  12. Nov 12, 2018 #12 of 167
    nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    I personally don't see myself cutting the cord. For things like live sports, not all channels have an app where games can be streamed. And even those that do, there's a time limit on how long they're available.

    I also don't want a cloud DVR either. A hard drive based one seems more reliable, and is less likely to encounter bandwidth issues, buffering, or lag that a cloud DVR would.

    So even if Tivo doesn't grow, I like what they currently provide.

    Cable could be better though, in providing more HD channels.

    That's not on Tivo, though.

    I don't have any issues with them expanding, as long as they don't cut what they currently provide.
     
    Willy92 likes this.
  13. Nov 12, 2018 #13 of 167
    nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    I was somewhere last week where a game was being streamed from a Fire TV. After half an hour, the stream was dropped. They then spent 20-30 mins trying to reconnect, but couldn't.

    Things like this are great when they work, but when they don't, there's another layer of complication.
     
  14. Nov 12, 2018 #14 of 167
    Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo Active Member

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    Cloud DVR is a great technical idea, but commercially it's a disaster. Just another opportunity for broadcasters to demand retransmission fees, require no commercial skip etc.. Why do you think Amazon is launching a physical DVR when they practically invented the cloud?
     
  15. Nov 12, 2018 #15 of 167
    Joe3

    Joe3 Member

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    When Rovi, the current owners of TiVo, decided to put their technology to finding better ways of putting advertising on a TiVo platform, their business model became transparently lazy like their decision of overseas support. Instead of technical innovation, opening its platform and freeing developers and/or working with outside developers, Rovi reveals their only true business model is to milk the TiVo brand. Rovi's feeble excuse after buying the TiVo platform is to repeatedly say, we bought it, now, just wait the top developers will come and write to our platform doesn't pass the smell test in the real world. It's past time to get rid of Opera. The excuses are as lazy as their overseas support is a lazy. Rovi's current leadership is to be a lazy bottom feeder of a company. They will eventually drive the TiVo brand into bankruptcy if they don't change their lazy business model to one of open development within a TiVo home platform.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
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  16. Nov 12, 2018 #16 of 167
    stile99

    stile99 Well-Known Member

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    Short term? Fine. Medium term? Probably fine. Long term? Innovate or die.
     
  17. Nov 12, 2018 #17 of 167
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, what I meant was that going with Opera for their app platform was a complete disaster. Whoever made that decision should be fired. Most Smart TV app selection is terrible, except for maybe Samsung TVs or one of those Roku smart TVs. They need to reverse course and switch to Android before it's too late.
     
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  18. Nov 12, 2018 #18 of 167
    stile99

    stile99 Well-Known Member

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    Flash flashbacks.
     
    tarheelblue32 likes this.
  19. Nov 12, 2018 #19 of 167
    tommiet

    tommiet Member

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    I think it's too late for TIVO.. the best they can do is sell their patents and call it a day. I like my TIVO, but understand its technology is on the way out....... Why do you think TIVO sold out? Why is the manufacturing of TIVO hardware going from place to place?

    Ever heard of iPhones? A lot of your cell phone stuff is cloud stored as local storage is limited. Apple is bad about this.... Computers? My company has 18k of Citrix workstations. The computer is in the cloud (not just the data.) Music? Most is in the cloud now. Windows 10... Cloud-based data, apps and user profile/settings. Available on any Win10 device that you own. No need to copy data or purchase the same license for use on more than one device. And Auto backup.... NICE....

    Just because Amazon is making a $300 DVR does not mean it's going to work. Remember the Amazon cell phone? Local storage will always be an option, but the cloud is where everyone is going. Cloud storage will cost less and make it easier to access your saved programs. No loss programs or dead hard drives... What's not to like?

    Sorry.... 30+ years in the IT business.....
     
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  20. Nov 12, 2018 #20 of 167
    tommiet

    tommiet Member

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    Do you expect commercial skip with Amazon's DRV? The fees are there, local or cloud-based. On-Demand tv --- Cloud-based TV --- Getting bigger and bigger and putting a dent in DVR's.

    TIVO's commercial skip is GREAT.. when it works. Seems to have a mind of its own. And when it doesn't work, the FF is SLOW.... SLOW... SLOW.... But I still like my TIVO.
     
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