TivoHD - "HDMI Connection Not Permitted"

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by AbMagFab, Aug 3, 2007.

  1. Aug 3, 2007 #1 of 42

    AbMagFab What happened, TiVo?

    Feb 5, 2001


    I see this in a blue Tivo message box on the bottom of the screen for a split second every time the Tivo switches resolutions when changing channels (I use Native).

    Anyone else seen this? I never see this on my S3's, and they are both on Native as well.
  2. Aug 3, 2007 #2 of 42

    vman41 Omega Consumer

    Jun 18, 2002
    Does this TiVoHD have an HDMI cable plugged into it? Perhaps the new hardware knows how to shut off just the HDMI interface when HDCP negotiation fails and that little message will still get pushed out to HDMI before it flips off.
  3. Aug 3, 2007 #3 of 42

    AbMagFab What happened, TiVo?

    Feb 5, 2001
    Yes, it's HDMI. Weird message though, for a device that supports Native. I thought the HDMI hardware was the same for this and the S3?
  4. Aug 3, 2007 #4 of 42

    Chimpware New Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    Yeah I get it briefly when I turn on one of my Sonys with the new Tivo HD. Probably just a delayed HDCP handshake .
  5. Aug 3, 2007 #5 of 42

    d_anders Sr Legacy Member

    Oct 12, 2000
    Twin Cities...


    Strange....I've got a TiVO HD with the HDMI cable (just setup last night and cable card install today) and I'm not seeing this at all...although I am going to test the difference between hdmi and the component cables with optical audio to compare.

    could be a unique combo with your tv set too.
  6. Aug 3, 2007 #6 of 42

    moyekj Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2006
    Yes but are you using Native mode for output setting? That is forcing the TV to re-sync when changing resolutions and probably causing temporary handshaking glitches (HDCP outages). Solution of course is to use a fixed resolution output.
  7. Aug 3, 2007 #7 of 42

    Chimpware New Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    Does not happen on my XBR2, but does on my Bravia with same HDMI setup and Native on both.
  8. Aug 3, 2007 #8 of 42

    bkdtv New Member

    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    I observed what appeared to be a delayed HDCP handshake back on Wednesday, but I have not seen it since I updated to 8.1.7b.
  9. Aug 3, 2007 #9 of 42

    gweempose Well-Known Member TCF Club

    Mar 23, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    I see this message all the time with my S3 hooked up via HDMI to a 60" Sony XBR. It only lasts a couple of seconds, and then it disappears. Not that big of a deal really.
  10. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

    Jan 6, 2007
    Is the message isolated to SD channels?

    Some HDMI connections do not support 480i. It is possible TiVo is telling you this before it converts to 480p. Not knowing all the details it could easily be something else also.
  11. fishtank22

    fishtank22 New Member

    Jan 4, 2004
    North Jersey
    I'm seeing it as well. Just got my TivoHD set up with my Samsung LN-T4065F and my HDMI cable.
    It happens when I turn the TV on and also when changing from an HD to SD channel and vice versa.

    When I set it to 1080i Fixed ... it doesnt happen.
  12. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    We see it on our S3 periodically. It is indeed the handshake issue on resolution change. It shows for about a second and then disappears. Not a big deal for us...although there is that brief moment of anxiety that something is about to go wrong.
  13. steve101

    steve101 Member

    Jan 4, 2005
    Virginia, USA
    I intermittently get this message (HDMI not permitted...)
    when I turn on the TV. It never happens during a
    viewing session (TV on, changing channels on the
    Tivo, whatever).

    TV is a Sony Bravia (1080p), Tivo is set to 1080 fixed.

    Once I get this message, what I have to do is briefly
    unplug the HDMI from either the TV or the Tivo and
    restore it. The video immediately syncs up and
    operation is back to normal.

    It seems to me that the Tivo gives up trying too
    soon, I wish it would (at the time it is getting ready
    to display that message) reinitialize/restart the
    HDMI and try again.

    That said, it happens seldom enough that I can live with it.
  14. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    IIRC other Sony TV owners have reported the same thing here and on the AVS Forum with TiVo's as well as other DVR's...plus various other oddities. The problem is usually caused by the loss of the HDCP "handshake". Unplugging or turning off the TV, receiver (if connected) or TiVo will reestablish the handshake. It doesn't appear to be a TiVo problem, but something to do with how some Sony TV's work.

    Some have cured the problem by using component (YPbPr) video and optical (TOSlink) audio instead of HDMI. The difference in PQ between a component connection and HDMI will probably not be noticeable...one or the other may be better depending on your TV's capabilities and audio will be as good or better. Here's a link to a good article on the subject:

    DVI vs. HDMI vs. Component Video -- Which is Better?

    Here's a link to a very good article about HDMI and why it is or isn't always the best choice:

    Connecting A Home Theater - HDMI
  15. elduderino

    elduderino New Member

    Sep 22, 2008
    Same message, different circumstances.

    I have a TivoHD connected via HDMI to my Toshiba 34HF84 television. I have had this setup for almost a year (early TivoHD adopter). I currently am on FIOS and have been for about 2 months, but prior to that was on a different cable system (Time Warner/legacy Adelphia)

    Starting yesterday, I get the "HDMI not permitted" message. I see and hear (if TV volume is up) a few frames of video and a burst of audio before the message appears.

    Checking under Account, HDCP is not permitted (of course, I doubt you can get this message without that field reading that way : )

    I have:
    • Unplugged the TiVo for a minute, reconnected. No change.
    • Unplugged the TV for a minute. No change.
    • Disconnected HDMI from both ends and reconnected. No change.
    • Cycled TV inputs. No change.
    • Cycled TiVo formats (usually use Hybrid 480i). No change.
    • Verified the TiVo FW has not changed recently (it hasn't)
    • Checked for TV FW updates - none (but I was pretty certain that this device was not built to be updated...)

    TiVo has no ideas (but the L2 techs are of course ready to blame the TV immediately...).

    In the meantime, I have wired for analog component video and analog stereo audio...which means I won't be watching DVDs anytime soon without re-rewiring. They are connected simultaneously, and while there is some data which indicates that with an unauthorized HDMI connection, NO signal will come out of the Tivo HD, my device outputs component and analog audio just fine simultaneous with that evil HDMI connection.

    Has anyone any insights? (which don't involve trying a new HDMI cable, a different source device as a test, or an HDMI AV receiver as a test, all of which I'm planning to do but none of which constitute "insight" as much as they do additional troubleshooting :)
  16. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    Odd that it suddenly started showing problems and it sounds like your trouble shooting has reached the point of going through those mentioned above now. Might be as simple as a new HDMI cable...they do fail now and then. Don't spend big bucks on "gold plated" features, just a good HDMI cable should do it (<$20).

    I've had our S3 hooked up with both component and HDMI at the same time and couldn't tell much difference in the PQ.

    The two articles I linked above have plenty of "insight". Best of luck!
  17. elduderino

    elduderino New Member

    Sep 22, 2008
    I plan on trying a new cable - I haven't looked up the pin assignments on an HDMI cable but I would be surprised if there was one conductor which handled HDCP authentication and nothing else. Could be a bad cable allowing more jitter than the components can handle.

    Just re-checked things, still no good.

    Any more experience on this sort of event? Anybody?
  18. ursine1

    ursine1 That one guy

    May 1, 2001
    Chicago, IL USA
    I see the message, but just for a split second, all the time. HD TiVo and Samsung set.
  19. Satchel14

    Satchel14 New Member

    Aug 27, 2006
    I'm glad to have found this topic on the boards. I too have had the same problem. Just got Tivo HD set up this week with a Sony 51" Rear Projection, DVI to HDMI. When it changes channels that message comes up momentarily but also a grey screen but then does change correctly. It's a lag of time basically, but it makes it even longer to change to the channel.

    I'm considering switching to component cables, but I'm worried about dropping quality of the picture. If I switch to component will I lose the clarity I have now?

  20. RonDawg

    RonDawg Well-Known Member

    Jan 12, 2006

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