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Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by sac84371, May 24, 2011.
facts are facts, doesn't matter if you try to ignore them.
So, no promises, just a lot of hopefuls that people now feel entitled too. That's exactly what I thought.
factually TiVo is defending the very IP TiVo developed in house to be able to market a viable DVR? correct?
TiVo wants to sell that IP to MSOs since it is painfully clear that TiVo can not compete head on with the MSOs from a 3rd party perspective, correct?
the ironic twist is that if TiVo was not doing those 2 things then shareholders would want TiVo exec heads on a pike.
the fact is, he does not speak for me and I am part of the community
No one is arguing that a company shouldn't defend its patents. However, it was pretty obvious that TiVo is currently tied up with ongoing litigation and more interested in the MSO market than it's own "TiVo-owned" paying customers. Hopefully, the MSO market will be able to force TiVo to improve it's current product since the "TiVo-owned" customers haven't been able to get TiVo to do just that.
Seriously, c'mon, you guys (you know who you are) are really clutching at straws to defend this behavior. Facts are facts, even if you try to wish them away or ignore them. The conference call really doesn't lie insofar as priorities are concerned.
So what's the alternative? Focus solely on the retail product which has proven NOT to be a money maker, or pursue MSO deals and protect the IP and stay in business? Or do you have something else in mind? If MSO deals keep TiVo around and providing service, why would I complain? Defending one's property isn't unreasonable. You have locks on your doors, don't you?
Sure, it's good for TiVo to pursue the MSO market too. However, I do believe part of the reason the retail market isn't a money maker for TiVo is because they've successfully neglected that market for far too long. Where's the new innovation and why isn't TiVo a currently market leader? Although TiVo and Moxi are the two main DVR heavyweights there's a lot of other technology that seems to be much more popular then TiVo is today (Boxee, Apple TV, Roku, etc.) I do think TiVo can be successful but something needs to change for that to happen.
They aren't mutually exclusive - for example, it's clear the HD menu build was done over a month prior to the release of 14.8. That's not a big deal, really - but it suggests that it just sat there, when there are much bigger issues than changing the look of some icons, for example.
I'm happy for you if you own stock, but less happy for all of us customers. I'm hopeful that continued success with the MSO route and the winding down of PART of the litigation result in more attention to actual customers. I don't think anyone could disagree with that desire except an apologist.
I agree with rdodolak's post (just saw it as I was posting this one) - the comparison to Palm is overwhelmingly blatant. Sure, you can nitpick differences all you want, and there are differences, but in terms of a general attitude and lifetime track? Tivo's headed down that road if they don't change something soon. Struggling to stay relevant in a field you once dominated is not a fun place to be - and resting on your laurels / releasing half-finished Premiere and not updating it much / etc. - those will NOT get Tivo to a better spot. A change has to happen.
Zeo read Steve's remarks. He stated there were many posts on tivocommunity.com that echoed by OP. Also based on a simple search on tivocommunity.com there seems to be a lot of concern regarding the current state of affairs at Tivo.
Okay does that address your concern.
Hey Zeo give it a rest. You are taking my post too freakin literal. My comments were based on the general change in emotion towards Tivo. The shift in behaviors in my opinion has gone from, "Wow, I can't wait to tell all my friends and family about my new Tivo and how it's changed my life," To "Tivo is not what it use to be. I would stay away for now and wait and see what happens. The products are overpriced and the Premiere Tivo has a lot of issues."
You can use this site as evidence that that shift has happened. Go to the Tivo official facebook page and see the posts there, once again the shift has happened.
The world does not revolve around you Zeo and yes I can reference the community and you may have a differing view but there is a "community," of folks that have lost faith in Tivo including me.
Got it Zeo!!!
Right on. Exactly what I tried to convey in my OP. Well said.
Have you got a year or two to read a very large book? Suffice to say it does almost nothing I need, and supporting it is a major, major PITA.
OK, I'll alow you never used the word "easy". It is the one most often used by most proponents, however.
No, it isn't. Indeed, it is a veritable dream to use. I'm using all three of my TiVos, right now, and none of the TVs attached to them are on. I'm not even in the room with any of them. In a few moments, I will be going to bed, and throughout the night I will be using all three just as much. I will be using them continuously while I am working tomorrow. Perhaps it is more accurate to say they will all be figuring out what I want them to do and doing it without me ever turning on a TV. When I do turn on one of the TVs, I will press <TiVo>, select a program to watch, and press <Play>. Other than the occasional pause when I want to go to the bathroom, that's pretty much it. I do sometimes use them to play music or check out the weather forecast.
It isn't universally praised. Certainly not by those of us forced to support it, but even many of my users who know nothing whatsoever of OSX or *nix dislike it. The phrase, "It's better than Vista" is not praise.
OSX is not polished, it's just glitzy. I take off points for glitz, big time. Ubuntu is not fast. Actually, Ubuntu is not an OS. It is just a distribution. It is far from necessary to use any distribution, and indeed the fastest *nix systems are not distro based. Personally, I am not primarily concerned with speed, either. My top priority is stability. After that, flexibility. Speed considerations come in somewhere near cost.
They would have to fire a bunch of lawyers, hire some competent programmers, scrap the source code entirely, and publish the new code.
It doesn't offend me. The fact it is intentionally lousy doesn't make it good, however.
I'm not certain what you mean by that. Most Linux distros come with more than 20,000 packages. The current Debian stable release fills more than 7 dual-layer DVDs. That's only the free software. There are thousands of different pieces of non-qualifying freeware and commercial software available for Linux. Almost every application of which you can think has one or several Linux analogs if not direct ports, many of which are far superior to the Windows analogs. What's more most Windows programs will run fairly well under wine, and virtually every Windows program will run in a Linux VM.
Setting games aside - I don't allow any games on any of my systems - what "mainstream application" do you know that does not have either a Linux port or a Linux analog available?
So Windows is designed for games? 'Another really good reason to avoid it.
Ubuntu is not a very professional Linux distro. Few, if any, pros use it.
The amount I watch is not relevant. After wading through the detritus and adding up the stats, I came up with a number of less than 10% of the available titles are ones I would ever care to watch. Of that number, only a very small fraction are available for HD streaming. Of that number, most I already have on my server. There are a few titles available for HD streaming that I don't already have and would like to see, but not enough to make it worthwhile, even if my ISP didn't have a cap, which they do.
You said it was, just as you said Windows 7 has been praised by everyone. If you meant otherwise, you should have qualified your statements. You certainly would have garnered far fewer arguments from me.
It is to laugh. If anything, they have far too many new movies. It's been a while since I ran a tally of movies I have by year, but I think the biggest single year was either 1968 or 1969. I have a great many from the 1940s, and quite a large number from the 1930s. 'Not so many from the 1920s or prior to 1920, but a few.
Oh, brother. If you want to see how far off the mark you are, take a look at my video server's main list here. That represents about half my collection of videos.
My decision not to take advantage of their product is not based upon any notion of fault. It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is. It doesn't suit my needs, regardless of how much that fact may have to do with my ISP and not NetFlix. I'm certainly not going to subscribe to the service just because it would be great if it weren't for my ISP.
Bullcrap. It is realizing there is not enough there that would be interesting to me to make it worth the cost and trouble. I drive a car model that is owned by only a very small number of other individuals. I do so because it meets my needs and desires far more than any more popular vehicle. It is not closed minded to realize this. It is also not closed minded to realize that in many cases, popular != good.
My second biggest problem with Windows is I am forced to support it. My biggest problem is I am forced to use it. I don't have a choice. If I did, I wouldn't.
None of those points were complaints. They were a small number of examples of things that range from the very difficult to the impossible under Windows. You claimed it was great, and accused me of being immature. I provided evidence that Windows is not great, and you avoid providing any evidence to the contrary by accusing me of complaining. Obfuscating and ad hominem do not support your position.
Not buying it. Roku has roughly one million boxes shipped, Boxee (?, but let's just say much less) and even AppleTV probably has less boxes in the wild than Tivo. However, the main point is that none of them are DVRs. Tivo is playing in their arena, but they are not playing in Tivo's.
The retail market has been hard on Tivo due to one thing: Cablecos protecting their turf with the shite that is CableCard. Sure Tivo has screwed up royally, but I am not sure how any company overcomes cablecard any better than Tivo has.
Look at Moxi. At one time they had access to millions and millions of dollars from Paul Allen. Yet, they couldn't make a dent due to CableCard.
+1 And you didn't even mention the even-worse "shite" that is the Tuning Adapter! (I think I know what "shite" is a synonym for. )
so wait, Tivo = great, Windows media center = crap?
media center is faster, it has no fees, it supports more tuners, it supports plug ins,it doesn't force you to have a discovery bar at the top of your screen if you want HD menus. it doesn't lag horribly in every one of its service-apps. yes, Tivo is amazing to use if you love SD menus,unfinished UIs and constant lag.
the rest of that stuff,I dont see the point of talking about...you think gaming is bad? what kind of attitude is that? are you like a angry 65 year old man who just thinks ' damn you punk kids and your games?" Gaming is a great pass time, just as TV is.
the fact that you think thats a negative for windows just proves you're a close-minded person, who doesn't want to be open.
it sounds as if you're just mad because you have to support windows in your job/life. looking down at windows like some kind of elitist isn't going to improve that situation,and people are not switching to linux,so get over it.
I would like to see a description of this upcoming DVR, do you have a link? I like every DVR I have used, including a Comcast version, but I just like TiVo better and I expect this Comcast DVR to be no different. At the price of $8/month if true for 4 tuners might be a great deal.
Of course it does, just like your Tivo needs a kick in the pants now and then to work correctly.
Configuring Windows Media Center is no more difficult than setting up the options on your Tivo. You scroll through a series of menus and select the options you want. It's not rocket science.
Only for software updates, just like a TiVo. I used to run over 6 or 7 PCs 24/7/365 and the only time they rebooted was with certain updates.
Just like my Premieres. The only time they reboot is when there is a software update or I manually initiate one.(like when i did to get hulu+ on a couple of my boxes)
IIRC, you can't do that using a Tivo unless it's been hacked so I gather you're saying that your Tivos are completely useless to you in this regard. FWIW, I'm on FIOS and don't have to deal with the CCI byte issue. I can freely copy anything I like from my HTPC.
You only need additional software if you plan on adding features like Blu-Ray playback. Windows 7 Media Center has (almost) everything you need right out of the box. Most "essential" add-ons are free for download.
Well, most of the real world uses Windows software so deal with it. You can stick to your guns and be left on the outside looking in or you can face reality and enjoy the benefits available to the rest of us. I'm no fan of anything Microsoft, but Win 7 Media Center is the best thing that's ever come out of Redmond, IMHO. Windows 7 is also the most stable version of Windows yet. I have to reboot my HTPC far less than I have to reboot my Tivo. Check that - my Linux-based Tivo likes to reboot on it's own with no help from me and it tends to do so at the most inopportune moments.