TiVo vs. Windows Media Center

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by rasmasyean, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. Aug 11, 2011 #1 of 141
    rasmasyean

    rasmasyean New Member

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    I've found a thread here on this topic but it was over a year old and they were talking about stuff like "when the 4 tuner thing comes out" etc...so I figured I'd start a thread to pick up the "advances in technology".

    Here are some initial questions that come to my mind:


    So what are some of the differences between going HTPC vs. TiVo?

    Are there other HTPC softwares you can launch instead of the built-in Windows Media Center?

    What does the XBox do? Allow you to stream "live TV" to another room?

    Can you stream "live TV" to a normal computer running WMC or some other software?

    You can stream any recording from a HTPC via Windows Media Player right?

    My TiVo does not allow premium channels to be transferred via TiVo Desktop. Will a WMC be any different? Can you break the protection in the HTPC (like many other PC files) and "transfer" it anywhere you want, including burn it to a DVD?

    Does WMC take a lot to run? For example, what kind of HTPC do you need to multitask WMC watching TV while playing say...Crysis (on a separate screen).
     
  2. Aug 11, 2011 #2 of 141
    rayik

    rayik New Member

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    Our family has "cut the cord" and we watch OTA and streaming internet.

    Before "cutting the cord" we tried different solutions one being Windows Media Center WMC). The other was TIVO (for OTA) and a Roku (for internet streaming).

    The WMC set up was a computer running with the Windows 7 OS running Windows Media Center. A tuner card was needed watch OTA (rooftop antenna for OTA plugged into tunner card in WMC PC).

    The family did not like WMC for internet streaming. It was easy to find clips of shows but not so easy to find full episodes of shows they wanted.

    I then tried out a TIVO for OTA and a Roku for internet streaming. The Roku is a small device that plugs into your modem and connects to your TV through HDMI. It organizes the internet into "channels" you can watch. We have netflix and Hulu+ subrcriptions as well using other "channels."

    The family much preferred the Roku plus TIVO set up to WMC only. So that's how we went.

    As far as watching TV through the xbox, you can do that. However, you have to setup a PC somewhere in your house. That PC will run Windows Media Center. If you want OTA, you will need a tuner card in it and connect your antenna to it. You would then set up the xbox to act as a Media Center Extender. As long as your PC is on with WMC running and is connected to the network the xbox is connected to, the xbox will then act as a "extender" and run WMC on your TV. On the XBOX it is a limited version without all the features found in a WMC PC. For example, you can not stream internet TV through an xbox extender. (MS disables that functionality so you have to go rent or buy shows through the xbox.)

    Good luck.
     
  3. Aug 11, 2011 #3 of 141
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Not much, really.

    Basically the same as any roll-your-own consumer built device vs an off-the-shelf item - with one exception: it's weird but true that the TiVo is easier to hack.

    It's not built-in, although I supose you can buy HTPCs with WMC already installed. To answer your question, though, the answer is, "No, at least not the last time I checked." A Linux app that supports the Ceton card is supposed to be under development. It is possible it has been released. I have not checked in some months.

    Among other things, yes.

    I would expect so. I don't really know, as I have no desire whatsoever to watch "live" TV.

    Well, no, I don't think so. I think there are restrictions on content with a CCI byte higher in value than 0x01. I'm not sure, however.

    Nope. This is only possible with a TiVo previous to the Premier. It is not possible on any stock device. I do it all the time with my two S3s and my THD, using kmttg or tserver / TyTool.

    I wouldn't recomend this. The server - whatever OS it runs - should be dedicated.
     
  4. Aug 11, 2011 #4 of 141
    rasmasyean

    rasmasyean New Member

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    Isn’t that “Green Circle” Windows Media Center “built-in” to Windows? Or is there a version you have to buy or something if you want it to act as a cable card recorder?

    OK, so if you can’t stream recordings via Windows Media Player, you can “share the HTPC video folder” and “copy the file over the network”, and then watch it after the whole file is transferred?

    And if you can’t “multitask” your HTPC, I suppose building one with a Core i7, 8 GB RAM, decent video card, etc…will just waste money and electricity? What then is a good spec for a HTPC? Can you get around this “dedicated” limitation by say…dedicating a separate hard drive for recordings? I ask because one of the things I thought a HTPC has over a TiVo, is that you can play games, in addition to running browsers with stuff like Hulu and NetFlix in the browser version.
     
  5. Aug 11, 2011 #5 of 141
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    IIRC, most* versions of Windows 7 has WMC built in. All you need is an external tuner. I don't know anything about set up, though.

    There is alternative HT software available if WMC is not to your liking.
    You could probably just Google "HTPC software".

    * The basic version of Windows 7 does not have WMC.
     
  6. Aug 11, 2011 #6 of 141
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    As someone who recently added Media Center with a Ceton InfiniTV4, I will sum it up as best as possible.

    They both have advantages and disadvantages depending on your usage.

    Remote Management: TiVo has a much more superior remote management setup when you take into account TiVo.com, the iPad App, KMTTG, and PyTiVo.

    On Windows Media Center you do have a free program called Remote Potato, but it is limited in the functionality. The previous developer who made a remote guide was hired by Microsoft and then the functionality wasn't added. You would think Media Center would get it right when you take into account things like Homegroup on Windows 7, but they intend you to either access Media Center from a 360 or the PC itself.

    There are also powershell scripts like WTV-Renamer and a conversion tool similar to KMTTG called MC-TVConverter.

    Overall here I give TiVo the hands down win.

    Season Passes: Here I give the win to Media Center for the most part. I haven't had any accuracy issues with Media Center, but I have read they do happen. They also don't offer any form of episode guide so you lose the season and episode number that the Premiere displays in their HDUI. Of course this is dependent on Zap2it which isn't always accurate.

    The reason I give Media Center the win though is the options. Media Center offers a form of Season Pass combined with Wishlists. For shows you can pick the channel or HD only, HD Preferred, SD Only, SD Preferred. You can restrict season passes to timeslot which helps for shows that repeat with bad guide data like the Soup. You can also add padding that will only happen if nothing else conflicts with the recording.

    Along with this they offer conflict management options. When browsing the to do list, you can see what won't record and address it there. You can just fix it for that one time or go into a tool that will fix it for all future instances.

    Streaming and MRV: I have to give the win to Media Center. TiVo doesn't offer streaming yet. Now I will say for the short time streaming was available I liked how it worked better TiVo to TiVo than from PC to 360. I have just always liked how TiVo plays back and trickplays.

    On top of this, Media Center supports more file formats via streaming. I have no issues streaming my AVIs/MKVs to my 360, but have to wait for the transfers on the TiVo which lately has been also causing my TiVo to reboot while transferring. I don't see TiVo offering this so I don't see this changing.

    DRM As far as DRM this is a tie with a slight benefit to Media Center. Copy Once recordings are just that except you can of course stream them on Media Center so you still have multiroom. Streaming copy once content though must come from a 360 or extender though and can't be another PC. With Media Center though you can move the recordings around, you are just limited to playing them back via the original PC that recorded the show.
    _____________________________________
    Overall I am still sticking with TiVo, but Media Center makes a good argument especially since in my case it only cost me $220 to grab the Ceton InfiniTV4.
     
  7. Aug 11, 2011 #7 of 141
    Enrique

    Enrique Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone is saying you can't, but maybe you shouldn't.

    But I do have a much less powerful PC and I watch blu-rays and record stuff(Sometimes I have 5 recordings going) in the background and everything works just fine.
     
  8. Aug 11, 2011 #8 of 141
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    I can't really say. I can't tell you much about Vista or Win7, beyond the fact I utterly detested everything about them on the systems I tried out.

    Not generally, no. In particular not if the recordings' CCI byte is not 0.

    I did not say one cannot, I said it is not recommended. Doing so is asking for trouble. What happens if you are recording four TV shows and your game locks up the PC? Instead, I would go with a less expensive PC for the HTPC platform, if I were ever to build one, which is highly unlikely.

    The hard drive is not the issue. Indeed, I recommend a RAID array for storing your videos, and any RAID array is going to have plenty of performance. The problem is going to be colliding real-time processes and potentially lost interrupts. There is a reason TiVos are RISC based.

    It can certainly be done. Servers, however, should be servers, and workstations should be workstations, and ne'er the twain should meet. I have two Linux file servers, one of which hosts all the files for the LAN as well as Galleon, kmttg, pyTivo, Apache, NTP, pyHME, and OpenVPN, as well as providing a backup for my HVAC controller in the event the other server fails. The backup server runs rsync to backup the main server, plus DNS and the primary HVAC application. Aside from the hard drives, which cost a pretty penny (for 30 of them, anyway) and the RAID enclosures, the server machines really didn't cost much. Any server should be able to expect 24 x 7 reliability. Server up-times should be on the order of months or even years, and with a workstation, that is not realistic.
     
  9. Aug 11, 2011 #9 of 141
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Don't forget Galleon and pyHME. Also don't forget the large suite of tools available to those who choose not to leave their TiVo stock, such as TiVoWebPlus and the ability to delete programs in kmttg.

    But not Wishlists, and not Suggestions. I record far, far more programs from Wishlists and Suggestions than from Season Passes. I do have a few dozen Season Passes.

    Or on the Tivo, only select HD channels as being received. That's what I do.

    No, thanks.

    Not an option for which I have any need or desire, so I can't give it higher marks than the TiVo.

    That's a definite no, thank you. An ability to handle conflicts more smoothly and easily, you bet. A utility which automatically chops off recordings that need to be padded? Uh-uh.

    I don't want to fix it from the to-do list. I want to fix it from the selection list. When a selection will generate a three-way conflict, I want all three shows to be displayed for selction not to delete along with an indicator of which ones have future recordings and the ability to browse all three to see when the future recordings will be.

    As long as the transfer is faster than real time, transferring is just fine.

    I saw where you were having this problem. Bummer. I don't know if this is a corner Premier problem or just a problem with your TiVo. I do not recommend the Premier.

    I disagree categorically, although this is a major reason I do not recommend the Premier. As of this time it does have this limitation. For the S3 and the THD, there are work-arounds.
     
  10. Aug 11, 2011 #10 of 141
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    I never had a hacked TiVo so I don't know any of the tools. As far as deleting programs, I can do the same on Media Center from any PC in my house. They are just stored in a regular folder so I just browse to the folder and delete.

    I turn suggestions off before I even set up my channels. I don't use wishlists, but yes Media Center has wishlists. They just aren't as elaborate as TiVos version.

    This works fine unless it is a show that is filmed in SD and aired stretched on the HD channel like some of the DIY, HGTV, and older programming. Also why record a SD show on a HD channel when you can just record the SD version?


    We use it sometimes for shows for my niece and nephew since they don't need HD for their cartoons, or for shows which will only be watched on a small TV.

    Then you don't record any shows with bad guide data, good for you. It comes in handy when you look at your TiVo to do list and you see 13 of the same show and episode being recorded.

    It doesn't chop off recordings, you are thinking of TiVo's implementation. When possible is exactly that, when it is possible and nothing else is recording. It comes in handy for the many shows these days that run a minute or two longer than they are actually in the guide for. Again though based off your previous posts you probably don't watch any of these many prime time shows so it won't help you.

    You can also fix it in the guide, and when you setup the recording. I just listed one screen. It does what you want.

    When my TiVo doesn't reboot during a transfer sure, but most of my server content isn't natively compatible with TiVo so it doesn't transfer faster than realtime. I still would prefer to be able to transfer or at least play as it did when streaming TiVo to TiVo was temporarily enabled where you thought you were playing a local file. Of course TiVo would have to add a ton more codec and container support to be the one box.


    It is a recent bug so something related to 14.8 or my drive is going bad. I just need to work on it and test some more to narrow it down.


    I have FiOS so it has never been an issue for me so I have never luckily had to see how it would affect my viewing.
     
  11. Aug 11, 2011 #11 of 141
    tivohaydon

    tivohaydon New Member

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    Well, with WMC you get to pick and choose what's important to you. That's the first thing you should realize. How quiet? How pretty? How much storage? What are you willing to spend?

    TiVo probably handles 1080i (interlaced) video better than the HTPC. I notice issues now and then but most of the time it's AOK.

    TiVo is better when it comes to control over playback when it comes to FF/RW/slow/framebyframe.

    Tivo handles padding better. When WMC has two back to back recordings on the same channel the end of one program and the start of the next are not padded, even if there are enough free tuners available to do it.

    WMC doesn't have a (now very high IMHO) monthly fee. I have one WMC box and two extenders and it runs fine. My monthly fee is the cost of one CableCard. Figure out what TiVo would cost you for this. And I get to watch all programs from every location.

    WMC extenders (even the XBox 360) are a bit sluggish. I don't know why, they just are.

    WMC's Netflix integration is pretty good, especially if you've got yourself a wireless keyboard. (I recommend a Bluetooth adapter and the Logitech PS3 keyboard.)

    TiVo's "Now Playing" list with folders is tons better than WMC. WMC has a lousy recorded program listing for more than a few shows.

    I've found it helpful to have the OS drive separate from the AV drive.


    No. Someone mentioned the Linux software that might become available. Sadly I believe that will only be for unprotected content.

    No, I don't think it takes too much if you consider the dollar cost. But you're looking at two PCs. One "does it all" PC could possibly work but I wouldn't try it. Regarding cost, it depends on what you're into. I'll post my WMC configuration. You'll see some qualitative differences between any TiVo and my configuration.

    OS: Windows 7 Home Premium
    Case: SilverStone Crown CW02 (has IR receiver and display)
    Tuner: Ceton InfiniTV 4
    Processor: Intel i5-760
    AV Storage: 6x Western Digital 2TB AV-GP RAID5
    OS Storage: Intel 80GB X25-M
    RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws 8GB
    Motherboard: Asus P7H57D-V EVO
    Video: Asus GT240 Silent
    Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W X650 Gold
    Heatsink: Thermalright HR-01 Plus + Thermalright 120mm Duct
    Fan: Scythe 120MM Kama
    Remote: Logitech Harmony 650

    What should jump out at you? Well, there's 10TB of usable AV storage for one. Again, figure out how much that would cost you monthly with TiVo. The "absurd" amount I spent on the PC suddenly doesn't seem so absurd for the capacity. I have over 850 HD programs (mostly movies) recorded and on rainy days I might get to a few of them.

    When it comes down to it, I don't care about "ripping" or otherwise transferring content off of WMC they way I cared about doing it with TiVo. There's plenty of storage there. I might upgrade the drives one day... probably when one fails and I rebuild the array.

    What's another thing that should jump out at you? Well, the hardware is no longer leading edge but it's a very quiet and very well specified PC. It's capable of handling all of this video and more with ease. TiVo is still a one trick pony.
     
  12. Aug 11, 2011 #12 of 141
    rasmasyean

    rasmasyean New Member

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    Are you saying that all TV shows recorded with WMC has the CCI byte setting? Why is that? So the only way you can use a WMC is to buy a whole bunch of XBox's? I read that the recordings are in a WMV file. Is this true? I though you can open this with WMP or VLC or Nero or whatever? Are you saying that WMV files with a CCI byte setting can only be opened on an XBox (including the original HTPC)? How do they accomplish something like that?
     
  13. Aug 11, 2011 #13 of 141
    rasmasyean

    rasmasyean New Member

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    Oh wait, I just looked it up. It's .wtv.
    I read some other forum where someone said it was .wmv.
     
  14. Aug 11, 2011 #14 of 141
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    It is WTV as you posted.

    No not all, it depends totally on your cable provider.

    If you are only using one room, then it won't bother you. If you are using multiple rooms then yes you would need 360s to view copy once content.

    If it is copy freely, you can convert it to whatever format you want.
     
  15. Aug 11, 2011 #15 of 141
    rasmasyean

    rasmasyean New Member

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    OK, I just found the folder "C:\Users\Public\Recorded TV\Sample Media" on my desktop with some samples in it and the files are .dvr-ms. LOL. So I guess .wtv is for Windows 7? Because I'm using Vista right now.

    OK, so let me get if I get the terminology here.

    copy once - you can "copy" it ONE time...and that ONE time is from live TV.
    copy freely - you can "copy" it an infinite amount of times anywhere you want.
    copy never???

    copy once recordings on my TiVo seem to be from premium channels and have a "No Smoking" red sign when I "Pick Recordings to Transfer" in TiVo Desktop.

    copy freely recordings I assume are the ones I'm able to select and "Start Transfer".
     
  16. Aug 11, 2011 #16 of 141
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    Yeah WTV replaced DVR-MS in Win 7. If you right click a copy freely show in Win 7 you are given the option to convert to DVR-MS.

    Correct on the copy once, copy freely.

    Copy never means you can't even record it.
     
  17. Aug 12, 2011 #17 of 141
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    I thought that the ''copy never'' flag allowed recording, but would automatically delete after a set period of time.
    Or is that just a more restrictive "copy once"?
     
  18. Aug 12, 2011 #18 of 141
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    WMC does have some options here that make it better, but IMO Tivo's advanced WL's with boolean search provide a powerful way to handle recordings of certain shows, like sports. I have multiple ARWLs setup for NASCAR, F1, IndyCar, MotoGP, AMA Pro (gee, you think I like racing? :p) that only gets me the races - not qualifying, not practice, not specific sub-series that I don't want (e.g. Craftsman Trucks or Motocross), all by putting in mandatory or negatory keywords. It works year after year no matter which channel or time these come on.
    Other people have done ARWLs using the Tupper method to screen out shows that have bad (generic) guide data, which are almost always repeats that were not flagged correctly. I don't bother with this and just delete the bad recordings, but it is handy.

    WMC can't touch this. I know it's a niche, but a very good one for Tivo.

    Agree that Tivo's conflict management is almost non-existent and abysmal compared to WMC.
     
  19. Aug 12, 2011 #19 of 141
    mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Well-Known Member

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    Ellicott...
    I'm curious as to what you think needs to be hacked in an HTPC. It pretty much does everything a hacked Tivo can do by default. I suppose you're referring to the additional tweaks and hacks that can be performed on a stock Media Center PC to improve performance and enhance the overall experience. I would hardly think that having to replace and reprogram a surface-mount EEPROM could even remotely be considered easier than hacking a PC. You forgot to mention that every time your Tivo gets an OS update you have to go back and rehack your Tivo because the update wipes out all of your installed hacks. There are methods to minimize this effort, but the fact remains that it still has to be done every time.

    Here are a few clarifications regarding HTPCs vs. Tivos:

    DRM issues - the copy-once flag is set by the provider. If it's flaggd for a Tivo it's also flagged for an HTPC. With an HTPC you still have the ability to stream it to media extenders in other rooms.

    Program sources - both HTPCs and Tivos can access internet content like NetFlix, Hulu, and YouTube. An HTPC just has more options whereas a Tivo is limited to whatever Tivo already has included in their current OS. Personally, I don't care about these sources because in the grand scheme of things the quality they offer is crap compared to the original feed from my provider or what I can get on Blu-Ray. I suppose people like them for the convenience they offer. Either that or they haven't migrated to HDTV yet.

    Program transfer and streaming - There have been various apps mentioned to permit transfer of files between a Tivo and a PC. With an HTPC, all you need to do is set up the HTPC for folder sharing and map the drive on your network. Open Windopws Explorer and copy, transfer, or delete whatever you want with no hacking or special software required. Media extenders allow you to stream recorded content or live TV to any room in the house. The one major caveat with extenders is their lack of codec support for commonly used types of video formats.

    Front end applications - With Tivo you have the Tivo interface and that's it. With an HTPC you have choices of programs like Windows Media Center, XBMC, JRiver Media Center, MythTV, and several others. All front end programs don't necessarily share the same functionality so you have to weigh the features that are important to you.

    Tuners - This is the area where an HTPC completely outshines any Tivo. With a Tivo, you're limited to two tuners, although there are reports of a quad-tuner model being introduced, but it's based on the Premiere IIRC (my least favorite Tivo model to date). With a Windows Media Center PC, you can have four of each of the following types of tuners by default - QAM, ATSC, and digital cable or FIOS. With an app called Tuner Salad you can increase the tuner limit to twelve tuners of each type.

    The latest Ceton firmware versions allow you to use a tuner sharing app such that you can install multiple tuners in one PC and assign them to other PCs on your network. The assigned tuners are dedicated to that PC and are not available for use in other PCs once they've been assigned. OTOH, the SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime has three or six networked tuners that can be used by any PC on your network that has been configured for use with them. Currently, Windows Media Center is the only front-end application that has been approved for use with cablecard tuners, although there was a workaround that would let you use the Ceton InfiniTV4 with SageTV.

    Commercial skipping - Tivo has the 30-second skip. HTPCs have the option to install software that will map commercials and skip past them automatically during playback with no operator intervention required. It's not perfect, which is why I opted to configure ShowAnalyzer to let me skip the commercial manually using the right arrow button on my remote. One quick press and I'm watching the next segment of the show. I prefer it because it allows me to screen commercials and decide if I want to watch them.

    Blu-Ray playback - Sorry, but Tivo owners aren't able to do this. With an HTPC, you can integrate a third party app, like Cyberlink's PowerDVD or Arcsoft's Total Media Theater, right into Media Center. Just browse to the folder where you've got your ripped Blu-Ray movies or the Blu-Ray disc inserted in the integral Blu-Ray drive installed in the PC. Select it and start playback with full 1080P and DTS-HD or Dolby True-HD audio bitstreamed to your preamp/processor or A/V receiver via HDMI.

    Gaming - Again, Tivo owners can't do this.

    Internet - Sorry, Tivo, but you lose once again. While Tivos do have internet access, you can't surf the web with a Tivo.

    PC functions - Tivo owners already know the answer to this one. Imagine posting to these forums with a wireless keyboard on a 60" screen while relaxing in your recliner.

    Storage capacity - Tivos can be upgraded to increase capacity, but only to a certain degree. HTPCs have no limit on how many drives you can install. You also have the option of using an external storage device, like an NAS enclosure or a dedicated server.

    Cost of ownership - I won't rehash this because it's been done to death. A Tivo with lifetime vs. an HTPC with multiple tuners is not a straight 1:1 comparison simply because you can spend a lot of money on an HTPC and a Tivo is a fixed price. Suffice it to say that if you decide to cancel your Tivo subscription you now have a nice doorstop. You're also locked into at least a one-year commitment with the Premiere, unless you want to fork out $500 for a lifetime sub. With an HTPC you still have a PC that can be tasked for other purposes. There is no cost for guide data or DVR functionality with an HTPC and therefore also no commitments.

    Setup - I've only used Windows Media Center and BeyondTV in addition to a Tivo and numerous other DVRs. WMC and Tivos differ very little with regards to setup. You go through a series of menus and follow the onscreen prompts and that's pretty much all there is to it.

    Minimum requirements - This pertains only to HTPCs since Tivos are a fixed configuration. The recommended minimum for an HTPC is a dual core CPU running at 2GHz and 2GB of RAM, although CPU running as low as 1.6GHz have been reported to work perfectly fine. If you want to bitstream HD audio then you'll need one of the current ATI or nVidia graphics cards with HDMI output or an Intel motherboard setup with an 1155 or 1156 socket and compatible CPU. The Intel setup can output HD graphics and bitstream HD audio with no additional sound or graphics cards required.

    3D capability - Tivo owners need not even bother with this. HTPCs can be configured for 3D capability with the right motherboard and graphics card.

    Ease of use - This is where a Tivo has a clearcut advantage. Let's face it, a Tivo is a standalone device with basically a singular function. An HTPC is, well, a PC and is therefore prone to the same issues as any Windows PC. If you're using the Linux-based MythTV then you probably don't have the same issues. I'm surprised the Tivo hacking gurus here aren't using MythTV because they already have the expertise to set it up. Surprisingly, Macs aren't really used for HTPCs, although they do have the AppleTV box which I know next to nothing about. If you want convenience and like to be on the safe side, stick with a Tivo. If you like to experiment and tinker and expand your horizons, check out what you can do with an HTPC. Chances are you already have a PC with Media Center so all you need to get started is to install a tuner and run Media Center setup.
     
  20. Aug 12, 2011 #20 of 141
    rasmasyean

    rasmasyean New Member

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    I always thought that Windows Media Player can stream videos over the network... Maybe I'm confusing it with something else.

    What is legacy support like? Can you open .dvr-ms or .wtv in Windows XP? Or do you need to download some other third party software?
     

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