Tivo to separate into two companies

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by alarson83, May 9, 2019.

  1. Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

    3,336
    799
    Aug 21, 2002
    New York...

    Advertisements

    Not an advertisement for FiOS, but here in the NY Metro market it seems that AV quality is improving again. They have dropped a bunch a channels, and converted more QAMs to MPEG4. They just did a 2160p broadcast last week that, by all reports, looked great.
     
    exdishguy and Bigg like this.
  2. Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

    3,336
    799
    Aug 21, 2002
    New York...
    On the original topic of the thread - I just hope that the TiVo software and Rovi guide data end up in different companies...at least then we'd have a chance of switching EPG data providers.
     
    exdishguy likes this.
  3. smark

    smark Well-Known Member

    12,415
    885
    Nov 20, 2002
    Denver, CO
    LOL. They will split with a contract to use Rovi for "x" years.
     
    wizwor likes this.
  4. OrangeCrush

    OrangeCrush Active Member

    306
    226
    Feb 18, 2016
    We need a UI that cohesively blends on-demand content like Netflix with linear channels from multiple sources (Cable, OTA, OTT, etc.). Google, Apple, Amazon, Roku, Plex, TiVo, etc. have all been working on this. I don't think anybody's quite nailed it yet, but there's been a lot of progress & innovation. Pretty much everybody has a good enough (voice) search feature to answer "I want to watch [specific show], where is it?" but I think there's still a lot of room to improve handing "what can I watch right now?" or browsing/content suggestions and discoverability. And part of it is just going to be consumers un-learning their reliance on grid guides and the absurd number of linear channels showing 80% reruns of old shows. In another 10 years I wouldn't be surprised if linear TV stopped airing scripted TV entirely and stuck to producing things that actually matter live (sports, news, etc.)

    I would love to go back to the more accurate & complete gracenote data. Hopefully they've preserved whatever software groundwork needs to be in place to switch it back.
     
    Bigg and NashGuy like this.
  5. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    4,185
    2,069
    May 2, 2015

    Advertisements

    On my Apple TV, I use the Apple TV app as the main (but not only) place to keep track of what I'm watching and what's available. It offers an Apple-curated list of "What to Watch" and "New & Noteworthy" plus lists of trending/popular TV shows and movies. It now also offers personalized automated recommendations based on past shows I've watched. I can also drill down into specific genres of movies and TV shows for longer lists. It pulls the featured shows and movies from across lots of different apps/services -- basically everything except Netflix -- including some I don't subscribe to. It's a simple unified place to browse for new ideas of what to watch.

    Clicking on any show shown in the app -- or doing a Siri voice search for any show or movie -- will take me to its info page, which lets me know the available ways to watch it, gives more info, a trailer (for movies), Rotten Tomatoes score (for movies), a list of all the seasons and individual episodes (for shows), etc. From there I can either add it to my Up Next universal watchlist or click through to watch it in whichever app I choose to watch it in. (It will default to using an app that I have installed and currently subscribe to, if available.) If I purchase or rent it from Apple, then it just play right inside the Apple TV app. Same is true if I subscribe to HBO, Showtime, Starz, Cinemax, Epix, or certain other services directly in the Apple TV app. Otherwise, clicking to watch bounces me out to another app (e.g. Hulu, Prime Video, PBS, HBO Now, PS Vue, etc.) where I'll be taken right to the content.

    The Up Next watchlist is the thing I use the most in this app. It's right at the top of the front tab. It keeps track of all the stuff I've saved to watch later and that I've already begun watching. It communicates back and forth with all those different apps (everything except Netflix), so it knows how far I've progressed in watching a series or movie and always shows me the next available episode ready to watch. When I've finished a movie, it disappears automatically from the Up Next list. When I've watched all the available episodes of a series, it will disappear from the list too but then automatically reappear when a new episode(s) becomes available. So when season 2 of Barry on HBO debuted a few weeks back, that series simply reappeared in my Up Next list. I didn't have to know it had come back on HBO. In fact, I didn't even have an HBO subscription at the time. But it popped back to let me know a new episode was ready to watch. (You can always manually remove any title from Up Next if you decide you're no longer interested in it, though.)

    Aside from the Apple TV app, I do still spend amount of time browsing around inside of individual apps too. If I find something new to watch inside, say, Hulu and then start watching it there, that show will automatically get added to the Up Next list in the Apple TV app, so I don't have to manually add it there too. I think there are 75 or more apps that communicate in both directions like this with the Apple TV app. (Although, if I just add a show/movie to Hulu's "My Stuff" watchlist inside of the Hulu app, rather than start watching it there, it does not also get added to the Up Next list.)

    About Netflix: their content is included in universal Siri voice searches and have their own Apple-generated info pages, just like anything else. And you can click from that page to go straight to the episode or movie inside the Netflix app. But content that is exclusive to Netflix cannot be added to the Up Next watchlist because the Netflix app won't communicate back to it to let it know what you've actually watched inside Netflix. (This is a Netflix business decision.) So, for me, Netflix is kind of its own separate viewing system walled off inside their little app. So when I subscribe to it (I don't currently), I spend a fair bit of time browsing inside the Netflix app for stuff to watch there and I maintain a separate watchlist in that app just for Netflix content.

    Beyond the Apple TV app, and browsing through content in individual apps, I also find out about things to watch by reading things online (reviews, etc.), seeing advertisement, and getting recommendations from friends. I don't ever feel like it's hard to find stuff to watch.
     
    Bigg and mschnebly like this.
  6. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    4,185
    2,069
    May 2, 2015
    You seem to be lumping streaming cable services (vMVPDs) like YouTube TV and PS Vue in with streaming on-demand services (SVODs) like Netflix, Prime Video, HBO Now, etc. I know both kinds of services are delivered via the internet (OTT) but they're really two different things. vMVPDs are just an extension of the traditional cable/satellite system that offers bundles of linear channels. That whole system is shrinking and will continue to do so as the new SVOD system grows, gaining an increasing share of content offered and consumers' time and money spent.

    I tend to doubt that vMVPDs will see huge growth in the future and ever really rival traditional MVPDs in terms of total number of subscribers. For a variety of reasons, I expect that the vast majority of folks in the 2020s who want a traditional package of cable channels will opt to get that service from the same company that provides their broadband (e.g Comcast, Charter, AT&T, Verizon, Altice, Cox, etc.).

    As for your objections to streaming, sure, I don't pretend that they're aren't trade-offs or that SVODs can currently serve as a full substitute for what's on MVPDs' cable channels. But then, at the same time, MVPDs' cable channels aren't a substitute for what's on SVODs like Netflix, Prime Video, etc. which have a lot of their own exclusive original content.

    But watch what happens in the next few years: we'll see more and more of the content available on cable channels ALSO become available through an SVOD at the same time. Just yesterday, WarnerMedia announced that their upcoming SVOD -- tentatively named "HBO Max" (I've been predicting the name "HBO+") -- will stream certain Turner originals BEFORE they air on their TBS, TNT or TruTV cable channels.

    full story (requires email for free trial): WarnerMedia to Put Some Shows on Streaming Service First
    recap story: WarnerMedia may stream show debuts before they reach TV

    But we'll also see more and more new content that's exclusive to SVODs and not available on any cable channel. There will be originals on Disney+, Apple TV+ and the upcoming SVODs from HBO/Warner, NBCU, and probably Discovery/BBC that don't air on any cable channels. Over time, the only stuff that will be exclusive to cable channels will be sports and certain news/opinion shows.
     
    Bigg and mschnebly like this.
  7. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

    27,636
    9,209
    Jul 28, 2005
    Maybe Weaknees should purchase the TiVo product division. :)
     
    OrangeCrush, Bigg and wizwor like this.
  8. exdishguy

    exdishguy Active Member

    286
    196
    Apr 30, 2004
    What an awesome idea! Maybe we should start a Kickstarter campaign to help them buy it (and demand some equity)? :)
     
    Bigg and Mikeguy like this.
  9. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

    27,636
    9,209
    Jul 28, 2005
    Coincidentally, I've been following a Kickstarter campaign that started today, for a luxury art item. I believe that it reached its $50K campaign goal in 8 [sic] minutes, and currently is at more than 7x that amount, with 29 days to go.

    Stranger things have happened.
     
    Bigg likes this.
  10. tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Well-Known Member

    4,348
    592
    Jan 12, 2014
    Raleigh, NC
    Even if they were separated, I'm sure there would be a provision in the divorce documents stating that the product company would get free access to the Rovi guide data in perpetuity. We aren't getting Gracenote guide data back under any circumstances.
     
  11. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

    4,570
    734
    Apr 2, 2005
    so it's official? Last conference call they said they were pretty much doing this but I guess there was still some chance they didn't do it.


    Sounds like Rovi just wanted the IP. And weren't been able to sell off the product division so they are spinning it off.


    IF someone does buy it who would? Comcast? Amazon? Tv manufacturer? Overseas company?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    Bigg, aaronwt and wizwor like this.
  12. MassMan

    MassMan Member

    55
    21
    Mar 19, 2019
    Huawei will buy them, add malware to the dvr's and sell them to us.
     
    PSU_Sudzi and Bigg like this.
  13. wizwor

    wizwor Guest

    1,081
    301
    Dec 17, 2013
    Not to me. I've bought my last ATSC 1.0 hardware. Those $199.99 sales were too good not to hoard.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    Bigg and aaronwt like this.
  14. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    4,185
    2,069
    May 2, 2015
    Well, the main thing that the product division does now is sell IPTV solutions to small-to-mid-sized MSOs (both telcos as well as cablecos transitioning to IPTV), plus of course provide ongoing service (guide data, software updates) to the existing client base of cablecos that use various models of CableCARD-equipped TiVo boxes.

    The most likely acquirer of an entire business is typically a direct competitor or a company selling related complementary products. So who else is selling IPTV solutions for those tier 2 and 3 MSOs? This article over at LightReading suggests MobiTV, Minerva Networks, Evolution Digital, Espial (now part of Enghouse) and MediaKind.
     
    Bigg likes this.
  15. mschnebly

    mschnebly Well-Known Member

    657
    358
    Feb 21, 2011
    Mesa
    Great article. Looks like Amazon and Google are really serious in taking a big chunk of business. They are working hard to get some deals going. Both have an awful lot going on in video distribution and see this as a way to build up on it.
     
  16. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    4,185
    2,069
    May 2, 2015
    Yeah. And Apple has gotten a few MVPDs (Charter here in the US) to use the Apple TV as a kinda/sorta cable box (albeit with the standard tvOS UI, not a customized UI like Google and apparently now Amazon are offering to MVPDs).

    Looking ahead a few years, it's just hard to see anyone left standing in the world of TV-connected devices beyond Comcast X1, Roku, Amazon, Google and Apple. Pretty much everyone else will just be an app riding atop those platforms.
     
    mschnebly likes this.
  17. wizwor

    wizwor Guest

    1,081
    301
    Dec 17, 2013
    Besides TiVo, who else is left standing right now?
     
  18. exdishguy

    exdishguy Active Member

    286
    196
    Apr 30, 2004
    It's on the shelf next to the Live Guide, Thumbs up/down and Transfer Recordings software groundwork collecting dust.
     
  19. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    4,185
    2,069
    May 2, 2015
    No one in the retail world but there are various first-party and third-party STB platforms in place by MSOs other than X1 -- Charter WorldBox, FiOS TV, AlticeOne, plus the various solutions sold to smaller MSOs by TiVo's competitors which I referenced above.

    It's probably an exaggeration to say that ALL those are going away but surely some of them will die or at least be deprecated over the next several years.
     
  20. wizwor

    wizwor Guest

    1,081
    301
    Dec 17, 2013
    I think you are right about Big Cable getting out of the set top box business. Those boxes require service and inventory and only make sense when the monthly fee is very high. TiVo never really attacked the cable companies on price. You always had to measure the payback in years. With a Roku or Fire TV stick, payback comes in months.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I'm not even sure Apple and Google will have meaningful market share in 'a few years'. Is Android TV Google or 'everyone else'? If you are going to build a smart TV, Android TV is free. Google seems to be fighting for customers who are going away -- the cable companies and televisions which are not Roku or FireTV. In the growing streamer segment, Apple and Google have fallen from half to a third. In 2015, Macworld boasted that Apple TV ousts Amazon and Roku to become the leading set-top box...

    'Other' is simple fading away. The last chart is installed base, btw. Amazon was late to the game and has been quietly eating away at the installed base of Roku which has been around since 2007 and was THE Netflix streamer for nearly a decade. Now, Amazon is practically giving away their consumer devices, has added a DVR, and has integrated OTT and OTA. 2019 numbers may be eye opening.

    So, I think you are correct that the MVPDs will get out of the set top business. I'm just not sure where they end up. I think we can all agree that I think TiVo is over. Hard to count Apple out, but they have been on the verge of 'Insanely Great' for years. Insanely Great is expensive. Roku positions itself as content agnostic. Their TVOS is terrific. Maybe they get out of the hardware business and focus on licensing the OS? That leaves, brace yourself, for Google and Amazon to fight over the rest. Google is a very dark force in the universe.

    I would like to offer Walmart up as a potential player. Walmart competes with Amazon in a very broad sense and in very specific spaces. Walmart has Vudu, free delivery, and a relationship with Apple. It would not surprise me to learn that Walmart is working on a Loyalty Program similar to Prime.

    It would all be very overwhelming if it mattered at all to a guy with a TiVo and an antenna.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements