Tivo to separate into two companies

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by alarson83, May 9, 2019.

  1. May 12, 2019 #81 of 191
    morac

    morac Cat God TCF Club

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    Based on what I’ve seen with the guide data lately, namely wrong descriptions matched up with the wrong series, I feel that Tivo likely got of the people in charge of guide data and has some kind of automated software do it as a cost cutting measure. Some of the mismatched descriptions make “sense” if they are being matched by keywords.

    Currently these can be fixed by filing an issue report and then someone will eventually manually fix them. I worry by splitting into 2 companies, that that won’t be the case anymore if the guide data goes with one company and the hardware and tivo service with the other.
     
  2. May 12, 2019 #82 of 191
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely--but is it the content one wants. Oh, and then there's that pesky monthly charge, x 2 or 3 or 4 or 5. ;)
     
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  3. May 12, 2019 #83 of 191
    exdishguy

    exdishguy Active Member

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    My premium channel guide data is completely jacked. For instance, 3 of my HBO channels all show the same listing, for the same movie, in the same time slot....AND ITS NOT EVEN WHAT IS PLAYING when I tune to any of the three.

    So yea, Rovi guide data sucks ass. Thankfully they have all of Tivo's patents now that their business model seems to be shifting to be much more overt patent troll whores. ;)
     
  4. May 12, 2019 #84 of 191
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Ah, OK. I wrote what I did about Moxi's incompatibility with MPEG4 cable channels based on my recollection of a user's reports with Comcast. I could be wrong, although the comments on this page over at AVS Forum seems to support that the Moxi HD DVR (the only model they ever released to retail, I think) can't access MPEG4 channels. But, as you point out, Moxi's stated specs do include MPEG4, which is weird. I suspect you're correct that it's a software issue (lack of licensing). And by the time that Comcast and maybe other cable companies were converting to MPEG4, the Moxi HD DVR had basically been orphaned by Arris. They weren't going to spend additional money licensing a codec for a dead product. That's my guess, anyhow.
     
  5. May 12, 2019 #85 of 191
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, probably not. Maybe TiVo could have bought Roku shortly after they launched. Or aggressively moved to copy them by launching their own low-cost (non-DVR) streamer that built on aspects of the TiVo UI and feature set.

    My original point is that TiVo missed their window of opportunity a few years back to pivot to streaming and thereby position themselves to be where Roku is today. It's very telling that TiVo has essentially admitted defeat in the streaming realm by just making themselves into an app that runs on the streaming platforms operated by Google, Roku, Apple, and Amazon.
     
  6. May 12, 2019 #86 of 191
    CloudAtlas

    CloudAtlas Bryan

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    I see Hulu as a compliment to TiVO/Cable just like Netflix and Amazon Prime Video. I subscribe to Hulu and like it just like I subscribe and like Netflix and a full cable package including all movie channels (included in bundle.)

    Nothing wrong with Hulu but it doesn’t have all network shows nor does it have the latest episodes for all the shows it does have. And even the Hulu commercial free option HAS beginning and ending commercials on some shows and most movies.

    Hulu’s Future:

    Disney, which now owns 70% of Hulu up from 30%, is in the process of buying the remaining minority stake from Comcast. At which point Disney will operate two streaming services! As expected, Disney's upcoming streaming service Disney+ will host the company's family-friendly entertainment, while adult-oriented content lands on Hulu.

    Hulu lost $1.5 billion in 2018 and is not expected to be profitable until at least 2024. So Disney will have to raise Hulu’s monthly prices as well as cut down on licensed content as it adds more original content. And with Disney owning competing networks ABC and Fox - networks NBC and CBS as well as others may no longer license content to Hulu.
     
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  7. May 12, 2019 #87 of 191
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Hulu has always been different from Netflix and Prime Video in that it was launched and co-owned by established media powers (ABC, NBC and Fox) as opposed to new media/tech companies. From a content perspective, Hulu's differentiating factor has (IMO) always been that it offers near-immediate access to new episodes of series from traditional TV channels. (Netflix and Prime Video, on the other hand, only get such content after an entire season has concluded its initial run on its TV network.) When a fresh episode premieres on certain broadcast and cable channels, it's available for streaming on-demand from Hulu a few hours later. But that's only true for a few channels, although it should be pointed out that NBC, ABC and Fox (which all put their non-sports content on Hulu) ranked as the 1st, 3rd and 4th most-watched networks on the cable dial last year. So a lot of the current primetime content that Americans watch lives on Hulu too.

    But you're right that Hulu offers a lot of other stuff too (as Netflix and Prime Video do) that makes it a complement to the traditional cable channel package. So I'd say that Hulu has always been partially a substitute for and partially a complement to traditional TV channels.

    As more and more traditional media players -- WarnerMedia, NBCUniversal, Discovery -- roll out their own streaming services, I think they'll follow Hulu's path, which is to include some or all of the content that currently airs on their cable networks, plus additional content (past seasons of their series, new exclusive originals, content licensed from third-party sources). In this way, their streaming services will be both a substitute for their cable channels AND a complement to them.

    On the one hand, as more and more consumers cut the cord on cable TV, traditional media companies realize that they need to meet them where they are, in the world of on-demand streaming. On the other hand, they're hoping that a lot of consumers who still pay to subscribe to their channels as part of a cable TV package will pay them a second time for their streaming service -- sure, it'll have some overlap with their cable channels but it will also contain lots of additional stuff. Just like Hulu.
     
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  8. May 12, 2019 #88 of 191
    Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Quite possible, but I'd much rather have a local DVR like TiVo. We'll see where it goes. If I have to get a network DVR, then I get a network DVR. I'm just concerned that TiVo won't make the jump to ATSC 3.0 at all.

    When do you think the current post-2000ish digital cable bundle will come crumbling completely down? My guess is that by 2022-2024, the current digital cable bundle won't exist in it's current form. What will be on linear pay TV, I'm not sure. I think by then, cable will pretty much just be a skinny bundle for sports and news.

    If you look at the way Hulu is position itself, basically giving away the version with ads, I would guess that almost their entire value is based on targeted advertising. I'm not sure what the means for profitability, but they may have more upside than services that are ad-free and charge a monthly fee for their service. With two tiers, Hulu can jack the rates way up on the ad-free version without risking their mainstream customers on the regular service with ads.
     
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  9. May 12, 2019 #89 of 191
    smark

    smark Well-Known Member

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    Disney doesn’t own the FOX network. That wasn’t in the sale.
     
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  10. May 13, 2019 #90 of 191
    mschnebly

    mschnebly Well-Known Member

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    That pesky monthly charge is for the massive amount of content. Compare it to the price of cable and it's pretty darn good.
     
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  11. May 13, 2019 #91 of 191
    abovethesink

    abovethesink Member

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    I still think there is a market for a Roku/Apple TV/Fire TV style streaming box revisiting the original OnePass vision. The market certainly isn't most people on this forum, but many of us are stuck in increasingly outdated modes of media consumption. Whoever replicates the traditional DVR experience to aggregate the vast and overall disorganized content of the streaming services will have a big leg up. I don't mean the same trick play options or physical recording, but just a simple "add this show to my list" section that works across all the most popular streaming services accurately and quickly. I don't think I need to describe this here as it was what OnePass was trying to do at first before they just kind of gave up on ever making the data reliable.

    BUT there is a second step to this too. Not only does there need to be a reliable and quickly updated "My Shows" equivalent, but there also needs to be a strong curation and recommendation element too. There are many ways to do this and the best approach would be multifaceted. It could include a folder that drops a link to the first episode of literally every new show that appears in the database for abroad approach that just lets people know when new content exists. But there also needs to be detailed genre sections and human curation, maybe Youtube style 10 minute video reviews of new shows as they drop integrated into the system that could be accessed in the same area that a user would go to access a show. I am sure many other people could come up with other suggestions for how this could be done too.
     
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  12. May 13, 2019 #92 of 191
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, at least as to the former point (as to the latter, the jury may still be out: as people have noted, the fees have a sneaky way of mounting up, once all is said and done). Of course, it's all more than free OTA, the amount of content from which has gone up dramatically at least in my area in the past 5 years (but without the likes of HBO, Showtime, etc.).
     
  13. May 13, 2019 #93 of 191
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    OK, but YouTube TV probably has all your local channels (including CBS) and an infinite cloud DVR. And on demand content too. No rental hardware. $50/month for service.

    And as far as commercials go, I don't know anybody who can't watch an occasional commercial in order to save $60/month on their bill.
     
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  14. May 13, 2019 #94 of 191
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree that streaming TV platforms need some kind of overarching, unified UI that pulls together content from all the underlying apps in a convenient way. If you only use one or two streaming apps, I guess there's not a great need for that. But if you stream video from more than a couple of different sources, I think most people would find a unified UI to be very handy. (Imagine on a traditional cable box if you had to click into a separate screen to check the program schedule for each individual channel rather than having a single unified grid guide for all channels!)

    The best stab at that I've seen so far is the Apple TV app, which serves as my "home base" for appointment television viewing. It's about to get updated any day with a refreshed design.

    Apple TV App
     
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  15. May 13, 2019 #95 of 191
    wizwor

    wizwor Guest

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    Amazon has done this for you (for a lot less than Apple)...

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. May 13, 2019 #96 of 191
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I used to think that. But the poor video quality from FiOS had me switch to streaming services. Now I typically use my TiVos for just news. While I watch scripted shows from streaming with better video quality than FiOS has now. And since there are either no commercials or I can quickly scan past them, surprisingly I have been fine with not using my TiVos much.
     
  17. May 13, 2019 #97 of 191
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    I do like the way that Fire TV has created a grid-based schedule for live streaming channels that come from a variety of sources (Fire TV Recast OTA + Prime Video Channels + PS Vue + Philo, etc.).

    But that's simply not the same thing that the Apple TV app has done, which integrates on-demand content (plus live sports and news) from various sources (basically, everything but Netflix). The old grid-based channel guide was (and is) great for linear channels but linear channels are not the norm in the world of streaming. On-demand is.

    And, unless something has changed, Fire TV doesn't give you a unified watchlist across a bunch of different on-demand sources that you can manage, the way Apple's Up Next watchlist does, tracking your progress through the series you watch. Fire TV doesn't have an on-device (not cloud-based) algorithm to suggest new content based on what you've watched so far. It doesn't have human-curated lists of suggested and trending series and movies in different genres. IMO, the Fire TV home screen is a confusing hodge-podge of apps and content titles. Amazon said they were readying a revamped UI a year or so ago. Not sure what's happened to that...
     
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  18. May 13, 2019 #98 of 191
    wizwor

    wizwor Guest

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    Right. LOL. It just lets me watch and record what I want. Sounds like Apple TV has a customer in you.
     
  19. May 13, 2019 #99 of 191
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I use ad free Hulu, CBS AA, Philio, and some shows I buy outright. So I either never see commercials or I am able to watch quickly FF past them.

    Sent from my Galaxy S10
     
  20. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I used to be the same way until FiOS video quality started getting close to the lousy Comcast video quality. It forced me to switch o streaming services. And as a plus I pay less now than I did when I only used FiOS for watching my shows

    Sent from my Galaxy S10
     

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