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Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by speedyrite, Mar 28, 2009.
So if its good enough for New Zealand then why aren't www.topuptv.co.uk interested in doing a deal with Tivo then? It seems to me their product has near zero visibility in the UK marketplace at the moment and a deal with Tivo is surely the way to turn that around. They have shown before that they are willing to part subsidise equipment prices in order to try and sign up customers for their limited pay DTT service on top of the Freeview channels.
Also if it can be cost effective for Tivo to launch in conjunction with a pay tv partner in a nation of only four million people then surely there might be enough BBC/ITV Freesat customers willing to pay the extra for a top quality Freesat PVR to make things work for a UK Tivo relaunch. However as a monthly subs model clearly does not work psychologically for Freesat that would tend to mean rather an expensive Freesat Tivo box purchase price.
Alternatively I cannot imagine what the logic is for not allowing Nero to launch a UK version of their Tivo product if Tivo can be cost effectively launched in a nation with a population only a fifteenth of the UK's.
Questions on all these points should be sent in an email to the following:-
Tom Rogers CEO/President firstname.lastname@example.org
Jim Barton Co-Founder email@example.com
Joe Miller SVP Consumer Sales/Distribution firstname.lastname@example.org
Mark Roberts SVP Consumer Products/Operations email@example.com
Woah, there cowboy! Where is the evidence for Nero not being allowed? The comments from Nero before was that they were evaluating the commercial benefits of doing it - nothing to do with "not being allowed".
More info at www.mytivo.co.nz
It's a very different business model to the US & UK operations:
It's also aimed at Freeview HD, which isn't available in the UK yet. Maybe someone will take a chance with it if the NZ service is successful and there are boxes which may be close in compatibilty terms to the UK Freeview HD service. But that's a commercial decision of course - how much competition is there in the NZ market compared to the UK?
Whichever way you look at it, it's still good news
Increased global visibility of TiVo can only make a return to the UK more likely. As long as TiVo continues to expand worldwide then the UK will surely get another TiVo system...... eventually
Its business model is quite clearly closest in UK terms to www.topuptv.co.uk, who would also be in to the idea of selling movies downloaded by broadband etc to supplement their meagre live subscription channel range. That is why I mentioned that company.
I think the bottom line is that if its commercially viable to manufacture, box and distribute a Tivo in to a market with only a fifteenth of the UK's population then it should be viable for either Topuptv or BBC/ITV Freesat to think of a way of selling a Tivo to their customers. A BBC/ITV Freesat box that provides FTA broadcast programs but that also let you download pay back catalogue programs or especially films etc from BBC Worldwide, C4 etc seems to be of interest. Of course if Sky wasn't such a horribly monopolistic company then a Freesat Tivo could be sold on the basis of adding a Sky CAM if you ever felt you needed to watch pay satellite tv channels later. But as we know thanks to useless Ofcom that looks highly unlikely to ever come to pass.
At the end of the day as long as the customer covers the equipment cost then and a certain payment to Tivo for its intellectual property right on the software the ongoing EPG costs don't have to be anywhere near the old £120 a year. If we take what Digiguide charge and Tribune offering up to 3 weeks data (another killer app compared to the opposition) then I would have thought offering Suggestions and something like the Tivoweb Highlights module (which could clearly have paid ads on the screen background etc) free for 3 months but then only continuing at say £29.99 per year ought to be a workable model.
The main problem seems to be that due to Sky and Virgin's dominance other companies are afraid to enter the marketplace for fear that those two companies will specifically compete with them anti-competitively until they put them out of business.
Looking at http://www.mytivo.co.nz/wantone/ there's a Sky TV tickbox in the Household Setup section. Not sure exactly what the setup is with Sky STB's and monthly subscriptions, but I'll trawl through http://www.skytv.co.nz/ when I get a chance.
If they're launching in a market where Sky is established then there's hope for us.
Maybe your last comment answers the earlier question? That's probably one of the reasons why Nero have not progressed Liquid TV over here.
Another recent TiVo partnership that could fit your 'Topup TV' model is something based on their deal with Netflix in the US. They started out as a 'DVDs by post' operation and expanded into VoD downloads. The latest TiVo now has the Netflix VoD service embedded. There was talk a few years back of Netflix starting in the UK but it didn't happen. TiVo HD with Netflix would definitely get my custom!
We're in the States now, but have Permanent Residence in NZ. Sky is the be-all, end-all in NZ. Their satellite system is about the only way to see more than the three local channels (and besides a couple of original programs some awful/old U.S. programming). They have various tier offerings from basic to full-blown several hundred channel packages. A lot of Kiwis use the basic tier to get about 30 channels and then rely on an antenna for local fare.
Sky promotes their own HD DVR. Last I looked it cost about NZ$600...and that was to LEASE, not buy! (Or $99 to sign up and $15/mo. on top of the regular monthly fee IIRC...what a bargain. )
A number of folks have hacked Series1 TiVo's to work in NZ based on an old OZ model with their own guide data, etc. It was a pain to maintain but it worked. So TiVo isn't completely unfamiliar there. Hopefully the new TiVo arrangement will give Sky a serious run for their money.
Don't forget the cost of the Freephone number and I suspect Digiguide don't have much in the way of customer support costs. TiVioInc does't make a lot of money (asny money) at current subs rates, why you think running at a quarter of the normal rate would be viable is beyond me.
Haven't you heard of broadband and wireless routers then grandad?
Nor will Tivo if they make www.topuptv.co.uk liable for them if they go down that route.
A UK Tivo could always make use of the existing Freeview or Freesat EPGs (poorer quality though they are in terms of Metadata etc) and have channel specific as well as non channel specific Wishlists instead of Season Passes. Then all that needs to happen is each machine price to contain a £25 royalty fee payment to Tivo and Tivo are quids in. Any support could be via a 50p per minute phone line and/or FAQs on a website and would therefore be self financing. That is all the support that most internet radio manufacturers in practice provide for their customers. And its certainly all the support that any Freeview customer gets.
Doesn't that almost entirely defeat the point?
The TiVi UI is the best, but is it really worth giving up SP functionality for?
Arguably a Channel Specific Wishlist is actually more reliable than a Season Pass where Tribune's staff may mess up and not link the new series to the original Season Pass. It is certainly superior to the system used by Sky+ or Freeview+
If the Freeview/Freesat EPG also provides the OAD of each episode then the Tivo ought to be able to work out whether or not an episode is the first showing available (under a channel specific wishlist) or a repeat of one that has already been aired on that channel.
But yes you may be right that it is not really Tivo without three weeks of EPG data and Suggestions too.
Grrr, first Australia, now New Zealand...
It's almost like they're deliberately teasing us.
Please TiVo - come back to the UK!
Gentle reminder, the TiVo4UK petition is due to close this month.
128 signatures so far, please please sign it.
When it closes end of April, it gets emailed to the top nob at TiVo himself, Tom Rogers.
Grrrgh. I hate IPetitions as they deliberately try to con you in to making a donation to them by making it look as though it is an essential part of the process of signing the petition.
Whereas in the small print on very close inspection you then find (after desperately trying to avoid making a "donation") that you have already recorded your signature when they start asking you for money with a Next button that makes it look as though it is compulsory to use and and donate in order to sign.
I don't think 132 signatures is going to change Tivo's mind and I really do object to having any dealings at all with the dishonest and duplicitous IPetitions. Their system also seems rubbish when it has recorded two signatures for me as anonymous even though the details used (name and email address) and IP address were the same for each.
I don't think I Petitions can be taken at all seriously. They are clearly just a money grabbing operation.
I agree. Those signatures wont keep them from changing their minds! It would have to be 1000's of them, (if not more) for TiVo to even take notice of it. Tom Rogers probably wont even see it. I sent a letter to Tom explaining everything and I didn't get so much as an acknowledgment.
My TiVo as much as I love it has been unplugged for weeks and weeks now. Yeah, I upgraded to Sky+ HD, because the picture quality is far better Even in SD, and Mode 0 was on my tivo. Sorry but its blindingly obvious they aren't interested in coming back here, and in the rare (and i mean rare) eventuality that they do come back, they wont support Sky, so there is pretty much no point in my unit being plugged back in again.
The only thing i have missed really is the Wishlists. Where as the dual tuners, and increased picture quality of SkyHD have been great.
Huh? It says "Your signature has been recorded" in bold at the top of the donation page...
What in very small writing that is off the top of the screen whilst in front of you there are large buttons to make donations to various values with a Next button by them.
I note that roddydogs felt the same way as me about it in this digitalspy discussion thread.
Is there nothing you won't complain about, Pete? Seems pretty clear to me (see attached)
But enough off-topic nonsense.
I object to their attempts to extract money being so in your face.
If anyone should pay them money it should surely be the person who started the petition.