TiVo support for IPTV

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by WorldBandRadio, Oct 14, 2018.

Tags:
  1. Sep 5, 2019 #301 of 355
    WVZR1

    WVZR1 Active Member

    648
    82
    Jul 30, 2008
    The WV...
    AND YOU CAN POINT 'DIRECTLY' TO WHAT I MENTIONED? Tell me when? And exactly how! A few hundred word 'oration' for a less than 10 word mostly I believe to be correct comment!!!

     
  2. Sep 5, 2019 #302 of 355
    Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    7,254
    751
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    That's just marketing. Cox is all-in on QAM, they have 1ghz plants with SDV. I'm sure every MSO will eventually go to IPTV, but Cox is no rush to get there like Comcast is. I think I saw somewhere that they are running 48 downstream DOCSIS QAMs PLUS a DOCSIS 3.1 OFDM block today. It's too bad that they kneecap the whole thing with data caps so that no one can really USE most of that bandwidth.

    You don't want a lot of IP unicast for something like the Superbowl. That's true for OTT vMVPDs and OTT SVOD though.

    They're already done that. If it weren't for owning NBCU, they would have virtually zero margin on the TV side of their bundles today. Maybe they scrape out some profit on boxes and PPV and premiums, but the core package is basically at cost.

    That's complete nonsense. Actual cord cutting saves a LOT of money, since most of those services are services that cord stackers have as well, like Netflix, or are basically free like Amazon Prime and YouTube. Even if you are a cord replacer, and get something like YTTV or DTVN, it's still cheaper than traditional cable, although not by nearly as much.

    Comcast has never done anything on time. But IPTV on Comcast WILL happen. Many other MSOs may never deploy managed IPTV, as the TV ecosystem may collapse entirely before they get to doing it. Cox, Altice, and other smaller MSOs may just exit the business entirely in the mid-2020's and bundle something like YTTV or DTVN, or Comcast's upcoming service. Charter is 5+ years behind Comcast from a technology perspective, so I don't know what they are doing to do. We've debated if they will even be an MVPD at all in the future. The technology side of it might support your theory that they will exit the business entirely as well. Verizon, while not an MSO, is a QAM-based MVPD, and it looks like they will exit the market entirely rather than migrate to managed IPTV. I think your predictions for AT&T abandoning U-Verse IPTV are looking more and more likely.

    The one I'm sticking to is DBS. There is a place in the market for DBS in some form, due to rural, commercial, and hospitality customers.
     
    NashGuy likes this.
  3. Sep 5, 2019 #303 of 355
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    3,512
    1,611
    May 2, 2015
    OMG. Tell you when and how? Dude, I've posted voluminously on the topic on this thread and others. I can certainly understand if you're not interested enough to read through all those posts (few would be, ha) but to say that I haven't written at length about the how and when of Comcast's conversion to IPTV is simply not true. It's all there. Read it.

    Here are a couple of plausible future scenarios I wrote on my "Years and Years" thread about Comcast.

    3Q2020: Xfinity Cable TV Goes OTT Nationwide
    Years and Years (of Pay TV Industry Predictions)

    1Q2021: Comcast Announces Deprecation of their QAM TV System
    Years and Years (of Pay TV Industry Predictions)
     
    Bigg likes this.
  4. Sep 5, 2019 #304 of 355
    WVZR1

    WVZR1 Active Member

    648
    82
    Jul 30, 2008
    The WV...

    KEEP AT IT - SOONER OR LATER YOU'RE BOUND TO BE 'MAYBE' CLOSER TO CORRECT!!!

    It took you and several others a 'FEW' days to actually determine Comcast regions and then again how they were organized further! Might be some of ya'll still scratchin' the head!

    You're correct when you mention 'VOLUMES' - there ain't no doubt!!! 'plausible - future -scenarios'? Those are again your thoughts, WAG or Speculation!
     
  5. Sep 5, 2019 #305 of 355
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    3,512
    1,611
    May 2, 2015
    Oh, yes, I realize Cox's Starter TV is just a marketing designation and not a matter of QAM vs. IPTV. I'm just saying that I can possibly foresee Comcast doing something similar, except Starter TV (or "Limited Basic" in Comcast lingo) would be the only thing left on QAM. Just depends. Maybe around the start of 2022, Comcast is ready to fully shut down QAM TV, in which case they go from what I believe will be the situation for 2020-21 (Limited Basic, Digital Starter and premiums being on QAM, with all of their channels in SD, a few of them in HD) at the end of '21 to *nothing* on QAM at the start of '22.

    But, OTOH, Comcast might take another transitional step by shutting down Digital Starter and leaving only Limited Basic (and maybe premiums) on QAM, and only in SD, and only accessible by simple digital adapters and whatever working CableCARDs are still lying around. That might be the situation for 2022-23, with QAM TV then shutting down entirely at the end of '23 to coincide with the implementation of an all-IP network ("Project Gram") running on DOCSIS 4.0.

    No, of course not. Although folks watching the Superbowl through any live TV service other than the one operated by the IP network owners *will* be watching via unicast, not multicast. This is one reason why I see broadband operators partnering up with nationwide OTT vMVPDs as preferred TV partners (as Verizon is doing with YouTube TV). As subscribers to the preferred service grow on their network, we'll probably see Google deep-link their CDN into Verizon's network (actually, they probably already have to some extent), with dynamic multicasting enabled on the network and on FiOS gateways (which will convert the multicast stream to unicast for distribution to clients throughout the home).

    Exactly. If they begin taking the steps I predict this fall (and perhaps only in the Central Division, at that), that puts them about 2 years behind schedule based on what was being talked about internally back in 2016. (The rumor article in Light Reading said all-IP for all new customers starting fall 2017.) Two years late sounds about right. Really, though, looking at how quickly things are moving now with AT&T TV, the partnership of Verizon and YTTV, and other developments in video, along with the degree of X1 and/or Stream app penetration among Comcast TV subs (~75% now), the time is ripe to begin the deprecation of QAM TV and a serious push toward all-IPTV.

    Yep. All the other broadband operators will end up scaling back their QAM TV systems too, to reclaim bandwidth for IP, and then just partner up with one or more OTT vMVPD. If Comcast does roll out their own OTT vMVPD as I predict, Charter would seem like a natural taker for it given their history of already cooperating on mobile phone service, plus Charter's stated openness of possibly using X1.

    Yep, it'll be around for several more years but will wither away. Will be interesting to see if DirecTV and DISH ever merge or somehow work out a shared operating agreement to reduce costs as their subscriber bases drop and margins become thinner.
     
  6. Sep 5, 2019 #306 of 355
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    3,512
    1,611
    May 2, 2015
    What's your point? You seem to have nothing interesting to bring to this discussion. If there are specific facts or opinions I raised that you wish to dispute by advancing your own arguments, feel free. Instead, you seem like a bitter bystander who was nothing useful to say so you keep nattering on about "WAG!!!" and "Speculation!!!"

    If you're a TiVo owner on Comcast cable TV and you don't like what's eventually coming down the pike, then don't read this thread and don't think about it.

    If you have some insights, based on observations, internal leaks, credible industry media sources, etc. that suggest that Comcast is NOT going to transition away from QAM TV (and therefore CableCARD and therefore TiVo) over to IPTV, please share that info with us.

    I'll be waiting.
     
    weaver and Bigg like this.
  7. Sep 5, 2019 #307 of 355
    Charles R

    Charles R Active Member

    559
    235
    Nov 9, 2000
    USA
    The Forum's Ignore feature makes most threads usable. Add a few and you are good to go. Other wise every thread becomes the same...
     
    dishrich likes this.
  8. Sep 5, 2019 #308 of 355
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    3,512
    1,611
    May 2, 2015
    I'm not sure what constitutes a "usable" thread in the TiVo Coffee House part of this forum. By nature, it's not supposed to be technical support. All it CAN be is a rehashing of whatever bits of news relevant to TiVo that have emerged in the media/on the internet, followed by our collective discussion and analysis of that info, along with, of course, speculation as to what that info could mean for the future. Seriously, that's ALL these threads are. If that sort of thing doesn't interest you, that's fine but if that's the case, why would anyone come here?!
     
    Bigg and mschnebly like this.
  9. Sep 5, 2019 #309 of 355
    mschnebly

    mschnebly Well-Known Member

    582
    318
    Feb 21, 2011
    Some folks are going to yell that it ain't happening right up until the day before it happens. A year of so ago when I was saying that they were laying fiber behind my house I was called nuts and practically a liar. Now every neighbor I've talked to has told me that they turned in their old DVRs and were given the new Xfinity ones with cloud DVR and free Stream app (Don't know what model #). Apparently I wasn't dreaming it all. We're moving to AZ this next week so I'll probably be a Cox guy for internet. I'll still be keeping my YTTV as I really like it. "Smooth as budda" on my APTV 4k.
     
    NashGuy likes this.
  10. Sep 5, 2019 #310 of 355
    compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

    1,827
    287
    Oct 6, 2011
    Agreed. I ignored him here and on several forums The speculation crap is nuts. It is like reading the physic hotlines Throw enough crap at the wall and eventually something will stick
     
  11. Sep 5, 2019 #311 of 355
    mschnebly

    mschnebly Well-Known Member

    582
    318
    Feb 21, 2011
    You could also just look at the title of a thread and if it's about something that hasn't been released yet you could skip right by it for the troubleshooting MOCA or I hate Hydra threads. Those are really interesting. :D
     
    NashGuy, weaver, kpeters59 and 2 others like this.
  12. Sep 5, 2019 #312 of 355
    gary.buhrmaster

    gary.buhrmaster Active Member

    110
    73
    Nov 5, 2015
    Wow, the pot calling the kettle black. You have never had an original contribution here or on DSLR, parroting others previous statements, without demonstrating any engineering chops, or background, to understand the facts on the ground that make those statement specific to that particular individual.

    I rarely use it, but for you, I will make an exception. "Plonk".
     
  13. Sep 5, 2019 #313 of 355
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

    4,404
    466
    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    No, it's not.
     
  14. Sep 5, 2019 #314 of 355
    mschnebly

    mschnebly Well-Known Member

    582
    318
    Feb 21, 2011
    Yes, it is. Maybe not where you are but it is.
     
    NashGuy likes this.
  15. Sep 5, 2019 #315 of 355
    Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    7,254
    751
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    There's a lot of possibilities. There's also the old analog 70 channel Expanded Basic, which could be kept as SD QAM. Who knows. There's no way they convert CT by the end of '22. Maybe Chicago. We're at least 3-5 years behind Chicago on virtually everything Comcast.

    I've been driving around a lot lately, and I've noticed that Cox, Comcast, and Verizon are all running fiber like crazy for their various "nodes", that being 5G for Verizon.

    That would be interesting. I believe the FAANG companies already have direct CDN ties to all the major ISPs, in addition to the major CDN providers like Cloudflare, Akami, Cachefly, Limelight, etc, and a few others like Microsoft.

    I'm not sure what bearing the OTT providers have on Comcast making their own service IPTV, but the technology path that they chose (wrongly IMO) has forced them into at least partial IPTV to deal with increasing bandwidth demands on the broadband side. I think they made a HUGE mistake by not doing what Cox did with 1ghz SDV, as 1ghz SDV combined with fiber deep can carry a huge HD channel tonnage without MPEG-4 and with plenty of room for broadband. Comcast has gone through MPEG-4 and is now going to do IPTV when Cox is cruising along with raw brute force bandwidth combined with SDV switching MPEG-2 CBR encodes around.

    Cox doesn't need the bandwidth back from QAM, it's just a matter of the business model of being a smallish-sized MVPD doesn't make any sense now, and it's not going to get better anytime soon. I wonder if legally they could get IP-ready, and just turn the keys over to Comcast for video since their boxes are already running X1? That would be weird.

    I suppose a merger is possible, but they really are in two different markets. DBS can survive just on commercial/rural, even if that's 1M customers nationwide each. DBS is a remarkably cheap and efficient delivery system. They would likely scale way back on satellites though, as in a future with fewer channels, they won't need as much bandwidth. I don't foresee DBS becoming obsolete in the next decade or two at least.

    This isn't speculation. It is analysis. There is a BIG difference. Clearly, I disagree with NashGuy on some details here and there, but no one can honestly say that NashGuy isn't doing a careful and well thought out analysis of the market and various forces in it. In fact, one of his predictions (CBS/Viacom) already came true.

    The fact that Comcast is moving towards IPTV is not up for debate. They have publicly discussed the fact that they want to go 100% IPTV. The timing of that transition, what path they take to get there, and whether linear pay TV exists at all outside of a few rural and commercial DBS customers by the time they finish converting all content in all regions (like CT) is up for debate, but it's obvious where they are headed.
     
    NashGuy, mschnebly and kpeters59 like this.
  16. Sep 5, 2019 #316 of 355
    compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

    1,827
    287
    Oct 6, 2011
    It is speculation. When everything he is speculating comes to fruition in the next 40 years We can analyze his predictions
     
  17. Sep 5, 2019 #317 of 355
    Phil T

    Phil T Well-Known Member

    567
    264
    Oct 29, 2003
    Littleton,...
    In 40 years I will be 107 and really don’t think I’ll care!
     
    compnurd likes this.
  18. Sep 5, 2019 #318 of 355
    Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    7,254
    751
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    Speculation != analysis. Nashguy clearly isn't speculating here, he's analyzing and predicting.
     
    NashGuy, chiguy50 and mschnebly like this.
  19. Sep 6, 2019 #319 of 355
    chiguy50

    chiguy50 Well-Known Member

    1,162
    376
    Nov 9, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    I, for one, enjoy wading through NashGuy's lengthy disquisitions:); I find them thoughtful, informative and--dare I say it--even entertaining. I think he's been reasonably clear in distinguishing between factual discussion, analysis, and personal opinion.

    And I appreciate the time and effort he puts into his posts, all the more so given the sloppy, ungrammatical, incoherent mess that one often finds dashed off on open on-line fora.
     
  20. Sep 6, 2019 #320 of 355
    mschnebly

    mschnebly Well-Known Member

    582
    318
    Feb 21, 2011
    #MeToo Oh wait that's something different. :p
     
    NashGuy and Bigg like this.

Share This Page