TiVo Subtitle/CC streams....

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by TexasGrillChef, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    On the TiVo S3/HD/HDXL DVR when you record a program. Doesn't matter if it's recorded off Digital Cable, HD, or OTA if the show has Closed Captioning it is recorded along with the stream onto the DVR.

    Using one of many programs available one can easily transfer this recording to their computer. TiVo's will also transfer the show between other TiVo's. When you watch the transfered show on your TiVo you can turn on or off the CC.

    If you transfer the show back to your TiVo from your computer it will till show the CC (Assuming you turn the CC on of course).

    TiVo records your show using the MPG2 codec. When on your computer it of course is in the TiVo format with the extension .TiVo. There are several programs that will remove the header information and turn it into a correctly formated MPG2 file to play in most player software programs. When you even transfer this MPG2 back to your TiVo. You can turn on CC and again view the CC stream.

    Now... What I want to know. Is HOW one gets can get a subtitle from a SD-DVD (Not concerned with Blu-ray rips at this point) into the MPG2 stream as a CC stream. Since SD-DVD's are in fact MPG2 files.

    Has anyone succesfully "muxed" a Subtitle stream into a MPG2 file as a CC stream to be viewed on a TiVo DVR?

    Thanks

    TGC
     
  2. txporter

    txporter One sec, almost done

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    Take a look at T2SAMI. It has this functionality with text based subs, but I don't think you can do it with bitmap based (idx/sub). I think it is done with mencoder.
     
  3. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    I tried the program seems to PULL Closed captioning text FROM TiVo shows you transfer FROM the TiVo but NOT put in Closed Captioning to shows you send TO the TiVo.

    I am not trying to pull the Closed Captioning FROM a TiVo file, I am trying to put subtitles INTO Closed Captioning that can be read BY THE TiVo.

    If T2sami does this I shure haven't figured out how.

    TGC

    P.S. I am trying to put subtitles INTO the TiVo as closed captioning .... NOT FROM the TiVo as subtitles.
     
  4. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    closed captioning/subtitles on DVDs are *images* and not textual data.
     
  5. Worf

    Worf Well-Known Member

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    Not quite true.

    You can have "closed captions" on DVD, as well as "subtitles".

    Subtitles are images overlaid on the video during playback. Some captioning programs do simple OCR work with the subtitles to make a subtitle stream.

    Closed captions are actual data embedded in the video. MPEG-2, as part of its transport stream definition has a method for capturing and storing line 21 (closed captioning data, amongst other things like teletext) information as part of the MPEG-2 stream. No big surprise, this is how TiVo stores the captioning. However, because it's part of MPEG-2, you can add a caption stream to the MPEG-2 video on a DVD as well, and it's then put into the line 21 data.

    That's why you'll find DVDs with the [CC] mark, which is separate from the Subtitles box. The former means the video has captioning, the latter is the DVD spec bitmap overlays. However, they're rarer these days, because line21 data only comes out... via analog. Composite, Component, S-Video only, which also means at best, 480p output.

    HDMI has no provision for closed captioning transport (well, it can be made to, but it's not in the spec) - anything with closed captioning requires the source to do the overlay process and output the merged image via HDMI. That's why the TiVo has a built-in decoder - it overlays the CC data.

    Because of this, most modern DVDs don't support closed captions, whilst many early DVDs did (and often had them in lieu of a subtitles stream). This is especially true since you get strange overlay effects as the subtitles image is overlaid, and the TV displays its closed captioning near the subtitle text if you have both enabled.

    Many PC software decoders have the option to enable line21 decode. But your best bet is one of the many programs that can take a subtitles track and make text subtitles out of them. And they do simple OCR. Alas, the last time I looked into this was easily 5+ years ago...
     
  6. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    What I am trying to do, is to take video that I have either ripped from DVD/Blu-ray or home video's and ADD Closed captioning (Line 21) to it. So when it is transfered TO the TiVo and played back ON the TiVo it will show the closed captioning.

    TGC
     
  7. whitepelican

    whitepelican Member

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    Feb 14, 2005
    T2Sami does do what you want. You need to use the "Coming Back" tab of T2Sami Desktop. I've used it a few times, but I'm still a rookie and probably can't explain it well enough, so you should look up the information on T2Sami found in the thread here at TivoCommunity.
     
  8. Das Achteck

    Das Achteck Member

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    The T2sami package includes two command line utilities which will extract DVD subtitles to a text based file as well as create an mpg, and then insert the contents of that file into the mpg as CC. Check the help file under options.

    Make sure you use version 3.2.0071 or later. Earlier versions may or may not work.
     
  9. jmemmott

    jmemmott New Member

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    Santa Cruz, CA
    It is best to use the latest 3.2.0072 if you are processing subtitles. I have been working with someone in another thread to find the location of a bug that was dropping some dialog and occasionally hanging up when it processed some subtitle streams. I think we have this correctd in this latest version.

    For the record, with respect to Blu-ray, t2sami will not handle the extraction side from these. Blu-ray uses a newer type of video substream for all captioning and subtitles and I have not tried to create code for it yet. However, there are utilities that will convert these to video and srt files. t2sami/t2merge can convert any ffmpeg compatible video file and a corresponding .srt caption file to a properly muxed tivo compatible mpeg file containing closed captions.
     
  10. txporter

    txporter One sec, almost done

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    Is merging srt files into mpeg files something that was already built into ffmpeg or did you need to code something special to do it? If it is (built in), can you post the command line to do it?

    Is this possible with h.264/mp4 files? I know that broadcast h.264 files can carry a caption stream, just not sure if there is a muxer that can do it.
     
  11. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Aha! That's my problem. Im not using DVD's. I am using Blu-ray rips, AND/OR home video's.

    I have a ton of home video's that I have taken as well. It would be nice to add closed captioning to it, so that when I become more deaf than I allready am as well as when other family members view the home videos I will know what is being said as well. That being said. All the home videos are in HD AVCHD discs &/or H.264 HD MKV files.

    Blu-ray rips play just fine in the MKV container and transfered by pyTiVo &/or TD+. Albeit with no closed captioning or subtitles.

    I did try T2Sami using an older DVD disc, and it did work. I am still playing around with it to see if somehow I can get it to work with HD video as well.

    TGC
     
  12. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Question:

    Since I use other means to rip a Blu-ray and create a MKV file. I also have the means to rip the subtitle track from the Blu-ray as well. I have easily created Sub files as well as Text based SRT files from the Blu-ray. So if I have an MKV HD Blu-ray rip and a seperate SRT file. Will T2Sami mux those together? The MKV file contains the DD5.1 audio track, and either MG2, H.264 or VC-1 video track.

    TGC
     
  13. jmemmott

    jmemmott New Member

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    Santa Cruz, CA
    Closed captioning in the Tivo only works on MPEG2 program streams. This is a limitation on the Tivo side. I don't think Tivo has put any effort into software to display captions except in the broadcast context and that is all recorded as MPEG2. The specific attributes of the video stream do not matter as it is carried in the program stream in the same way in all cases so HD, SD, 480i, 1080p makes no difference to the process. This may change Netflix or someone else provides another reference point for carrying captions in the program data but until then MPEG2 program streams only.

    ffmpeg cannot mux the captions into the program. t2sami employs it to convert the video to an MPEG2 program stream. t2merge can then remux the program stream with the captions from the .srt file into the format the Tivo requires for it to display them correctly.
     
  14. Das Achteck

    Das Achteck Member

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    When 0071 went up you told me that for the time being I needed to use the command line version of t2merge. Is that still the case or has 0072 been updated in this regard?
     
  15. Das Achteck

    Das Achteck Member

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    Mar 8, 2005
    But your OP said

    And that is the issue I addressed.
     
  16. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Ooops! my bad! lol sorry.

    TGC
     
  17. jmemmott

    jmemmott New Member

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    Sorry, no change yet for your specific circumstance - stick with the work around. It is in process and should be fully fixed this coming week in the 0073 release. I had not intended to announce anything until all the planned changes and fixes were in place. A limited subset of the scheduled fixes are in 0072 to allow someone else to check on my work. The relevant problem could only be reproduced using entire DVD file sets and those proved to be too large to transfer easily for testing so I needed help to make sure I had addressed it correctly.
     
  18. Das Achteck

    Das Achteck Member

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    No problemo.
     
  19. whitepelican

    whitepelican Member

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    Feb 14, 2005
    Another thing for the OP to consider: If you want to view .MKV files w/ subtitles on your Tivo, you can do this currently using Streambaby. You don't even need to mux the subtitles (.SRT) into the .MKV file. In fact, I think if they are inside the MKV container, you need to extract them to a separate .SRT file. I believe you can do the same thing with Streambaby using MPEG2 or AVI files as well, as long as you have a separate SRT file for the subtitles.
     

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