TiVo stuck on IOS 2.0

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by davestercrombie, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. davestercrombie

    davestercrombie New Member

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    Sorry guys but I have to say that I am so very dissipointed how the TiVo corporation has run over the last 2 years in regards innovative software updates.

    2 years back I bought this TiVo XL premiere DVR. I was intrigued on the advertised new HD menu interface and the ability to use video online services all in one box.

    Having a multiple HD tv's, Blu Ray players, Roku's and many other IT toys from computers to game stations and smartphones I was really excited to see what TiVo had to offer.

    When it arrived and I hooked it up my first impression of the new HD menu was it was rushed out too early. To me it looked like they took their existing SD menu and patched it with a HD home with a few other pages. The way the box connects to amazon and netflix was unchanged. I thought there was no way a company would leave their operating system software so unfinished that something big must be in the works.

    I figured TiVo would have a update out in 6 months or so finishing up the HD menu and hopefully a new interface to Netflix and Amazon.

    Fast forward to day the on screen experience still looks exactly the same today as it did 2 years ago. I don't see how they could leave the software so unfinished. Almost like CEO decided to cut the development department and filled it with nothing.

    I see they have a new premier box with 4 tuners but where on earth are the software innovations to go with the hardware?

    I have a older iPhone 3GS. I updated to IOS4 last year and got all the new software innovations and this year I updated to IOS5. I can use the cloud and all the other neat stuff. Microsoft comes out with service packs with all kinds of new features for their software. Even my Xbox 369 has had major redesigns and software development.

    I just am so truly dissipointing at how TiVo is not developing new and exciting software features to go with it's hardware. Heck it would show some balls if the company though outside the box at all. I mean it is almost like the CEO still uses a VHS to record his or her shows. Where is the innovation. Where are the game changing ideas?

    My roku has a great interface to netflix and amazon. Even my bluray player has a nicer smoother menu connecting to Netflix and amazon.

    A nice feature would be when setting up a recording for live programming the TiVo box can receive a update if the game goes in to overtime and extend the recording. (Yes I know that you can program the tivo time to extend live programs in the settings but that is not what I am talking about. I want the box to be smart enougth to do it when needed.)

    Another great feature would be the servers send out updates when prime time programming is bumped for a extended sporting event. Just last year the world series went over it's time slot. I did not record the world series but I had House programmed to record at 9pm. Only to find out the next day that house was bumped to 10pm because of the game. These are all software fixes that could be built in to the software on the server side.

    You know what would be wild. A kinect type interface to the TiVo. Imangine sitting on your couch and with the flick of your hand being able to move around the menu. With tv's so large and hd resolution if TiVo had a better photo browsing interface mix that with a kinect eye and you could have something like all your photos on your tv like a coffee table. The you could sit in your couch and use your hand movements to move the photos and arrange them. Think of a family reunion or just looking throw a scrap book with the kids.

    It just seems like the folks over at TiVo don't care to dream much about what they can do to really take their product to the next level.

    I have to think if Bill Gates or Steve Jobs started up TiVo it would be light years ahead of where it is today.

    What about a Facebook and twitter interface. I mean TiVo markets a wireless keyboard controller and a iPad application. The TiVo could have software with Facebook and twitter build in to the menu. Social networking right there on your TiVo menu on the side. That would be a great feature. Heck if they had a kinect innovation with social networking think of using your hands and fingers to social network. That would be wild.

    What about connecting directly to the box from your mobile device so you can watch your shows from the road?

    Right now I have to program a auto rule to move programs to my PC. Run a 3rd party program that categorizes my shows in a working hierarchy and run a airserver on my PC so I can watch my DVR shows on my iPhone or iPad where ever I am whenever I want.

    If the TiVo company does not get off the couch and start making some real innovation on its software it will end up just like blockbuster. Blockbuster was too slow to keep up with the market when it evolved. Netflix came out with their mail service first and beat them to online content.

    Same thing is going to happen with TiVo.

    Another innovative idea TiVo could access my email similar to how my iPhone access it. There you go. If you combined social networking, email, watching your dvr'd shows from your mobile device, intelligent live show interruption service all in one box. That would be one heck of a hot item.

    I just wish TiVo would get off the couch and do some work.
     
  2. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Of what particular use is "innovative"? Most of the things I see that are dubbed "innovative" these days are just stupid. For the most part, I could not care less about things being "innovative". I'm impressed with stability, flexibility, and rock solid performance. I am also impressed with any system that does not require any intervention from the user. If the system has to employ a UI at all, then it has failed in its purpose.

    My impression of it and similar offerings is it was a stupid idea from the get-go.

    Replacing broken software with more broken software on a frivolous platform does not impress me.

    Exactly how would the box know this?

    Again, exactly how do you propose the box should be alerted to this fact? How would that information get from the mind of a studio supervisor at a network operations center to a device in your house?

    No, they aren't. They are poorly considered ideas that have no means of implementation involving massive roadblocks in the entire broadcast system. Implementing them would require huge and widespread changes to the hardware throughout the industry coupled with the development of software protocols that all the broadcasters agree to implement along with new personnel to manage them.

    The Tivo (indeed, all DVRs) relies upon the data sent to it by Tribune Media. This data is distilled from a mountain of schedule information sent by an army of staff members scattered across hundreds of broadcast companies including the national networks, local TV stations, and local staff at CATV companies. It is a full time job for thousands of individuals who work continuously to try to get the information out in time for it to be scheduled in advance by consumers.

    When a broadcast event goes overtime, it is the decision of the studio supervisor whether to allow the event to continue or to terminate the event and switch to the regular program schedule. If it is a national network feed, then the local TV station program supervisor also may decide to terminate the national feed and continue with normally scheduled local programing. Thsi decision is made locally and independently at literally thousands of local TV stations. How is your TiVo supposed to be informed of which decisions are made by which stations in time to pad the programming?

    No, it seems they make a great product free of the utter nonsense you would have foist upon a fine platform.

    I can't imagine a more horrible idea. This is just moronic. Microsoft makes the worst software imaginable. It's buggy, kludgy, utterly offensive, and hideously overpriced. Apple is not all that far behind, although their software is admittedly a lot less buggy.

    Give me a freakin' break. This is just utterly stupid.

    No, it wouldn't. Are you just trying to list the worst possible ideas on Earth for incorporation into a DVR?

    Well, that's a little better, but not much. Leaving aside the fact no mobile devices have an acceptable viewing screen, you have to get around the fact that few ISPs provide enough upstream bandwidth to be able to effectively stream video of reasonable quality. The ones that do charge a lot for the privilege. No, thanks.

    So what? The abundance of 3rd party programs are one of the great features of the TiVo.

    It would be one heck of a bloated, ineffectual kludge shoehorned into an equipment system that does not lend itself to the proposed purposes. A PC sitting on a desk does a fabulous job of handling the things you mention - although twitter and facebook are ridiculous uses of them. A TV does a reasonably decent job of displaying videos. A PC is lousy at playing videos and a TV is utterly lousy at attempting the things a PC does well. A failure to realize the fact does not constitute innovation.

    I am frightfully glad you are not the chief engineer at TiVo.
     
  3. 9300170

    9300170 Member

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    Feb 20, 2003
    Tempe, AZ
    As usual, some user details a thoughtful dissertation on the stagnation of TiVo and a fanboy throws nasty vitriol on them. <sigh>
     
  4. takeshi

    takeshi Member

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    Jul 22, 2010
    ...and someone comments on the situation. :p

    Seriously, though, no matter what the topic (I see this on every forum site I frequent) there will be those complaining that there aren't enough new whistles and bells with the latest release/version and those responding that they're happy with the way things are.

    If you're unhappy with a thread then inject some commentary that you think is useful/interesting.
     
  5. Joe01880

    Joe01880 I love my TiVo

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    the OP has all the crap he is screaming about on other boxes so whats the *****?Not one mention of what a great DVR TiVo is and thats what it is folks a DVR. Add to that it takes him/her 2 years to get pissed off about it. If you want Apple TV, go buy an Apple TV..or a google and after you get all the stuff you are looking for in whatever and however many boxes you have them in go buy a new smart TV that has them all.
    TiVo needs to do ONE thing and do it VERY well..be a DVR
     
  6. nrc

    nrc Cracker Soul

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    As usual, someone dismisses anyone defending TiVo has a "fanboy".

    Count me in, I suppose.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to be disappointed with the pace of TiVo's progress. The HDUI should be complete and they should have streaming working on the retail boxes at a minimum.

    The problem is that the OP has made a ridiculous comparison between the pace of "innovation" of iOS and TiVo. That's comparing devices that will sell somewhere over 100 million devices next year to TiVo which might, if things go well, get back to 1 million new subscribers next year.

    The revenue just isn't there to drive that same pace of innovation. Heck, the revenue isn't there to make it even worthwhile for very many companies to even bother.
     
  7. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Yes, I see Moxi is out of the retail business now.
     
  8. shaown

    shaown Member

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    I wish he was the product manager at Tivo. He is absolutely on point. Many of these ideas are implementable in part or in whole. Some are too difficult, but the point is still valid. (and a good chief engineer would tell him which ideas could be done).

    There is a lack of exciting innovation the makes Tivo a compelling long term platform beyond simple DVR duties. As an owner of many S4, S3, s2, and S1 units - I keep my Tivo for its exceptional abilities as a DVR. But the premiere's marketed strategy as a single box to do everything? Complete failure. I have an Apple Tv, a Roku, and a XBox 360, cause they all have numerous services Tivo lacks. IF Tivo just wants to be a simple DVR - fine - continue to pursue the MSO partnerships. But if they want to maintain a retail presence, or be seen as an industry leader - they have to innovate.

    What new cool feature makes u want to use your Tivo for any non-DVR function. And if its just a good DVR (still the best in my opinion) - we all know its lifespan is limited - cable companies narrow the gap everyday. For the first time in 10 years - I can imagine using a non-Tivo DVR in the future (though hopefully still a few years away - consider my stack of Lifetimed Series 4/3s)

    -Shaown
     
  9. aadam101

    aadam101 Tell me a joke

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    The thing that people seem to forget is that Tivo doesn't care about it's retail customers. They haven't for a very long time. While everything the OP says might be correct, it just doesn't matter to Tivo. Tivo has their goals and those goals have nothing to do with retail customers. We are just a mere inconvenience.
     
  10. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    If he was product manager he would either change his tune or resign within the first week, after seeing the limited development resources available. This results from some combination of the relatively low sales volume and/or management priorities. The right way to put it would be: "I wish TiVo could use a person like him as product manager".

    Kind of glad I have stuck with my HD. The only significant advantage of the Premiere is the much higher network transfer speeds and that isn't of huge importance to me, especially since TWC copy-protects most channels.
     
  11. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    I will defend Tivo again when they get the core working the way it should on the Premiere (HDUI and networked boxes). It's one box that should integrate well with the others on your network. You should be able to schedule a recording or season pass without having to worry about which box it will actually record on. It should resolve any conflicts with all the boxes on your network and find the open tuner. The NPL should show an integrated view of all the available recordings on all the Premieres on your network and you should be able to stream them to whichever box it is not on (a whole home DVR solution).

    Until then... I'm not as much of a fanboy as I used to be.
     
  12. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I really wouldn't want that. The "My Shows" list on my Elite is already becoming too large. Adding the content of three more TiVos to that list would be too much.

    Although if they put restrictions on cooperative scheduling I would be more inclined to embrace it. For instance it could never use a tuner on another box to record unless there was always a tuner free during that recording time. That way if someone wants to use that box, there won't be a situation where all the tuners are in use.
     
  13. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    Maybe they could use those A, B, C, D buttons for something like that. To show an NPL for 4 different boxes (for example).

    As for the other comment.... I have my TV and that has a tuner... so it would not be a problem. I don't know that I would care about all the tuners being used then.
     
  14. djwilso

    djwilso Member

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    Dec 23, 2006
    Phoenix, AZ
    Uh, wow. I guess you told that guy. It seems that you are refusing to think outside of how things are currently done and not believing that it might change for the better.

    The PSIP (Program and System Information Protocol) information that is sent in the digital ATSC data could be used to tell the TiVo whether the current program is going longer than expected.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_and_System_Information_Protocol

    Currently, TiVo does read the PSIP data to change the program rating present in the Tribune guide data.

    Also present in the PSIP data can be the current program title, the time remaining, and other information.

    My HDTV from 2005 has no difficulty with showing some PSIP-provided items like the current program title and time remaining, so it doesn't seem like much of a leap that if the folks at TiVo wanted to, they could use the available program information in the PSIP transport stream to perform padding decisions like those the OP described.

    For a live sporting event, the time remaining would not be present in the PSIP data, of course, so the TiVo would need to monitor the received program title to watch for a change in it.

    This is not too difficult. It relies on a system that is already in place and would just need to be more widely adopted so that the TiVo could rely on it.

    All the talk about production supervisors and thousands of people fervently updating program guide data is simply irrelevant. All that has to happen is that the PSIP data has to be reliably and accurately updated. All the other stuff you mentioned is how it is done now, not how it could be done.

    If properly implemented, this data could even be used to ensure that programs start recording the instant they actually come on and stop the instant that they actually stop, regardless of the clock in the TiVo or the information in the program guide from Tribune, which could both be off or wrong.

    All of the comments regarding Microsoft software are ludicrous and laughable.

    If Microsoft software is so awful, please tell me, what software out there is so great and flawless that everyone should be using?

    If you say that the answer is Linux, I will keel over from dying of laughter as I have to reboot my Android phone so that it works properly for a while. Do you know how often I reboot my Windows 7 and 2008 R2 Server machines? Only when updates are delivered. Otherwise, they run steadily 24/7 for at least a month at a time.
     
  15. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Saying that to lrhorer? That's like waving a red flag at a bull! :eek:

    And saying Windows isn't perfectly robust is like standing in front of a herd of stampeding bulls yelling "you're going the wrong direction!". :D
     

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