TiVo Spam

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by TiVo Steve, Dec 9, 2008.

  1. Dec 10, 2008 #61 of 106
    gonzotek

    gonzotek tivo_xml developer

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    Outside...

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    It's not impossible. Press Clear after pressing Pause. I'll give you annoying, irritating, frustrating, and distracting however :).
     
  2. Dec 10, 2008 #62 of 106
    Einselen

    Einselen ɹǝsn pǝɹǝʇsıƃǝɹ

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    And here I thought this thread was gonna be about a new SPAM can with the TiVo guy on the side. Mmmm.... SPAM... /drools
     
  3. Dec 10, 2008 #63 of 106
    jhimmel

    jhimmel Member

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    Fine. You make no distinction between a menu item for a TiVo feature, and a menu item that is for a paid-for third party product. I do.

    So nothing that TiVo might do matters to you because "it's just TV"? If that's the case, I'm glad you told me. I'll take that into consideration when reading your posts.

    I happen to use my TiVo's a lot - have been using the service for many many years. It may very well be that I simply care more about it than you do. That's okay.
     
  4. Dec 10, 2008 #64 of 106
    TiVo'Brien

    TiVo'Brien Now with 2.6% Fewer Organs TCF Club

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    TiVo Inc.'s greedy lack of respect for its customers' preferences is coming through loud and clear and it gets louder and clearer with each software revision. If they cared about my viewing experience, they'd allow me to opt out of the ads. This is supposed to be TV my way, isn't it? I'm on the verge of becoming a TiVo anti-evangelist. ("TiVo's gone downhill. It's full of ads now. Just get the cable DVR.")

    At least for now disconnecting the network cable cuts down on the amount of garbage they can festoon my TiVo with.
     
  5. Dec 11, 2008 #65 of 106
    self

    self New Member

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    Advertisements

    TiVo's customers are the advertisers and television networks; their users are a resource to be sold.

    What I don't understand is why TiVo has continued with that particular business model since it has never worked for them.
     
  6. Dec 11, 2008 #66 of 106
    yunlin12

    yunlin12 Tivonation Citizen

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    Because Tivo has tried to make $ by just collecting service fees and they weren't profitable either. It turns out no one wants to just give Tivo money, even its users, no matter how much they like the service. Tivo should have just borrowed a page from the cable company and raised their fees $0.50-$1.00 every year, and desensitized its users. Now any time Tivo tries anything new to monetize more out of its sub bases, people scream bloody murder and point towards the good old days.
     
  7. Dec 11, 2008 #67 of 106
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    that is the missing connection for you
    you pay over 100$ a month to have the content DELIVERED and recorded. Those 30 sec ad spots are what currently pay for actually making the content. We DVR users happily skip over them and as DVR use increases that makes revenues from those 30 sec ad spots decrease.

    Either some new way to make up that revenue is found or there is less money to CREATE the content. Simple business math. TiVo is looking to the future when ads will be served up in some new way that circumvents those 30 sec spots that more people are skipping over.

    If you want to see Lost or Grey's Anatomy or whatever multi-million dollars per episode show you like then either you will pay WAY MORE than 100$ a month directly out of pocket or we will all put up with ads that spreads that cost out into a hidden bill on the goods and services we purchase.

    The reselling of shows for 2$ a pop is an aftermarket revenue generator that also adds to the budget for shows but those budgets are still heavily subsidized by advertising revenue
     
  8. Dec 11, 2008 #68 of 106
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    yah those untold millions in profits they make is just unbelievable :rolleyes:
     
  9. Dec 11, 2008 #69 of 106
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    If the entertainment industry actually had to sell their product to the actual consumers of the product to make money there wouldn't be any million dollar episodes of anything. Advertising revenue allows the entertainment industry to be very lucrative - if advertising revenue declined then the entertainment industry would need to adjust - actors are paid on part based on profit or potential profit - if the profit is less they will be paid less.

    I find it amusing that the general public sentiment is that auto works making $60,000+/- per year are over paid and are causing that industry to fail, but we have no problem with people in the entertainment industry making that much in one week (or even 1 day) - all because the true cost of entertainment is hidden from us by advertising.

    Thanks,
     
  10. Dec 11, 2008 #70 of 106
    self

    self New Member

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    Nope.

    First, TiVo always tried to blackmail and lie to its users: you have to pay for them to not turn off the box, not for what they actually supplied. TiVo never charged for the guide data, and they only once charged for a software update. Which seemed to have gone fairly well, for some definition of "fairly well."

    The whole purpose of the subsidized box was so that they could get enough market penetration to have valuable user data -- they specifically said, years ago, that having one million users meant they could suddenly sell useful data to advertisers and networks, and it was clear, when they started saying that, whom they considered their real customer base to be. (To be fair, the more paranoid and cynical felt that way a while before that point in time.)

    And at this point, they've been selling their users longer than they tried treating their users as their actual customers.

    Hindsight is 20/20, as they say, and TiVo's made a whole bunch of mistakes, but most of them seemed generally sane at the time. The problem is that they've kept doing the same failing thing, year after year after year.
     
  11. Dec 11, 2008 #71 of 106
    SpiritualPoet

    SpiritualPoet Member

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    Although like many I pause TiVo's 30 minute cache or during playback due to an interruption needing my attention. However, sometimes I pause to examine visual detail (such as a note (or letter)) on the screen in a movie a character is reading, a recipe for some food, or other such purposes. I find it irritating that I have to push the clear button to remove any TiVo pop up message.
     
  12. Dec 11, 2008 #72 of 106
    jhimmel

    jhimmel Member

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    Or maybe they just won't be able to afford to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per episode to actors.
     
  13. Dec 11, 2008 #73 of 106
    CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

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    Pressing fast forward to advance a single frame is faster and easier since your thumb is already right there. That is ever so slightly less annoying, irritating, frustrating and distracting.
     
  14. Dec 11, 2008 #74 of 106
    scandia101

    scandia101 Just the facts ma'am

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    Pressing clear clears the screen. FF clears the screen and advances the picture which may not matter, but it might.
     
  15. Dec 11, 2008 #75 of 106
    jhimmel

    jhimmel Member

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    Maybe I AM missing the connection.

    How does buying ad space from TiVo help pay for making content? I'm not saying it doesn't - just asking. Who is paying for the ads and who gets the money?

    The money for the ads you are talking about (that we are skipping) went to the studios, which in turn could fund programming. You are implying that this is the new model to bridge the emerging gap. But isn't TiVo getting the money from this new model? I would appreciate your explanation - it's not my area of expertise.

    Lastly - a portion of my $100 a month DOES fund content creation. Verizon does not broadcast premium content without contracts. Networks are another matter.

    Jim H.
     
  16. Dec 11, 2008 #76 of 106
    self

    self New Member

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    Yeah, that's why movies have commercials in them, and DVD sales are so unprofitable. (Light sarcasm there :). Product placement helps offset the cost of the movies, but isn't actually necessary -- my favourite example is Josie and the Pussycats which parodied it hugely, but didn't use it.)

    Advertising as a model works, to some degrees; direct sales as a model works, to some degrees; and selling a service as a model works, to some degrees. While I seriously dislike TiVo's business models, I don't know that they ever had any chance of making money, since the cable companies were always going to be able to undercut them. (I am very much looking forward to what happens with DirecTV next year. It could be their future. But so could simply being a company that does nothing but sue people over patents that are questionable at best.)
     
  17. Dec 11, 2008 #77 of 106
    Videodrome

    Videodrome tivo - please wait..

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    Do you watch sports ? Did you ever have to get information from the a paused program ? They should change the button on the remote to "hold-program-info" button, because it doesnt stop or pause. It doesnt serve its purposes, Sorry Tivo you lost my recommendation as a customer..
     
  18. Dec 11, 2008 #78 of 106
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    So are you willing to pay $7 per 2 hours of TV per person? That's what it takes for a movie to be profitable at the movie theater. DVDs/rentals are as cheap as they are because they are add on revenue after the movie made money in the theater or after the TV show was paid for by advertising. Total US television advertising is somewhere in the 45-50 Billion dollar range. So thats what we would have to make up in user fees if advertising went away.

    Thanks,
     
  19. Dec 12, 2008 #79 of 106
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    TiVo in its public statements points to the future time when 3 0sec ad spots are no longer big revenue makers because the number of DVRs has made them obsolete. At that point advertisers will be looking for the next way to deliver ads to the public. TiVo hopes to have the technology the advertisers will need at that future point. In the meantime Tivo makes some change off of running ads itself to a small subset of the larger advertising audience.
    fair enough but hardly denting that 40 Billion and up total price tag.
     
  20. Dec 12, 2008 #80 of 106
    jhimmel

    jhimmel Member

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    I still don't see how TiVo's ads are a substitute for network ads (where the networks received the money for the ads) when it comes to content creation.
    Maybe I'm being dense - can you explain further?

    Lets say someone is selling Dishwashing liquid. They pay a network for a 30 second spot during targeted programming. The network uses a portion of that revenue to help pay for content. The company is, in a sense, helping to sponsor that program.

    Now, because we are skipping those 30 second spots, the dishwashing liquid company decides their ad money is better spent purchasing a banner from TiVo. How does that fund content creation?

    Now, the Horton Hears a Who ad could presumably bring more viewers and help them sell more product, that I could see. But that is very different than implying that these banner ads from TiVo will somehow be a substitute for the vast majority of ads that we are currently "skipping" with our DVR's when it comes to content creation.

    You said I am missing the connection, and you are right - I still am. WHAT is this piece that I am missing?

    Jim H.
     

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