Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Mot, Nov 17, 2007.
OK, so what did you mean by this, then?
a yellow star on the main menu -now within a banner
banner ad on keep or delete screen
thumbsup - or banner ad over top of an actual TV commercial
how is that substantially more
no one said no amount of advertising is justified. Many have said that advertising that does not get in the way of normal DVR operations is no biggie and helps TiVo make some revenue. That is all, all the rest is just FUD.
so name this multitude in the same kind of business as TiVo that is profitable without advertising. Lets take the opinion that TiVo does not have to advertise to turn a profit out of the equation.
no, just the way you have distorted this debate to one of any ad is A GOOD AD. If I agreed to some TOS in a business deal with McDonalds that allowed them to send things to my cell phone and my cell phone operated normally and I did nothing different to use my cell phone despite the ads - then that would be an equivalent thing.
If McDonalds just started sending ads to my phone without my consent then that is SPAM and I would not find it acceptable. man you wnat facts and no opinions in the posts and then go into some Minority Report World of ads being beamed at us and we would all find it just fine.
That's what got them sued.
However, when Sonic Blue filed for Chapter 11 and sold off the ReplayTV assets to D&M, there were only 100,000 subscribers.
Replay was getting pummeled by TiVo sales wise.
Using just your examples, that is a 300% increase in delivery methods. Do you not consider a 300% increase substantial?
OK, tell me one ad model you mentioned that you disapprove of? No distortion - you're defending the model, and thus far all I've heard from you is how harmless these ads are.
Man, you just don't understand the model, do you? In lieu of trying to flame me with that Minority Report BS and FUD commentary, try to do a little research and reply at least with the appearance of intelligence. I'll try to break it down for you best I can. It is not McD that will be beaming the ad, it is almost the same model Tivo uses. Try to follow, and see how it relates to the Tivo model:
Service Provider enters into an advertising arrangement with x number of companies
Service Provider amends TOS to include targeted advertising sent to your phone
Service provider's ad model is that when it detects that your cell phone has entered the proximity of one of its advertising partners, the Service Provider interjects a targeted advertisement to your cell phone
All ads are sent by the Service Provider to equipment you own, at a time, delivery and presentation method of their choosing
Supporters of Service Provider jump on the forums defending against harsh posts of this advertising model as essential to the survival of the company and explaining the ads are themselves harmless and non intrusive
So to that I say "Yes, try to stick to the facts and at least do a little research into some of the technology being developed.". Well, as best as you can, we all know your propensity for lack of cohesive thoughts and understanding sometimes when you get excited defending Tivo.
I think it is inferred somebody will start making HTPCs that use Replay software for the DVR.
It is not implied who will make such a machine.
no, I do not consider 3 cookies substantially more than 1. Now 300 cookies is substantially more than 100 but that is not the scale we are talking about.
I am saying that on my TiVo, the ads are still unobtrusive and I use my DVR with no change and ignore the ads or take a look if interested. The ads on TiVo I do not disaprove of. As for the model it depends on how it is implemented and the cost to me.
I did not mind the old way ads were done on this web site but do not like the new way as it is more obtrusive and takes up real estate that posts used to take. However the site is still free for my use and I have no problem with the trade off at all.
I noticed you did not provide any examples of companies nopt advertising to back up your opinion. Cell phone companies might be one but then they charge a good bit of money per month for the service.
in your phone example it is either Mcdonalds I make a deal with specifically or else with my phone carrier. If my phone carrier just changed the TOS and I received no benefit then I would consider the factors around it. What ads, how many ads, did I have to use my phone differently because of the ads, etc.. Would rates rise if they did not do that, is there a service I would use instead that did not make me compromise on features, etc.. if they gave me free 1000 anytime minutes for ads I would happily accept it.
TiVo walks that fine line of being a subscription service so they can not present ads like this website does or offer free service for more ads so instead they keep the ads unintrusive and TiVo knows full well there is a line they can not cross or they will loose many subscribers.
as for your persoanl attacks - look back and note I talk about your posts not you personally. You choose instead to insult me the person which is against forum rules and says much about your character and your lack of any real content to debate with.
It's not companies who do not advertise that is the question; it is service oriented businesses that do not pollute the service with third party advertising. Tivo is free to advertise itself in magazines, on tv, radio, billboards, etc.; I couldn't care less. I take exception with them polluting the service I pay for with third party advertising. But since you wanted a list, here are just a few (and yes I just googled for an applicable list just to make you happy).
assisted living centers
automotive repair shops
You want debate, here: A lot of people, like you, seem to have problems understanding the distinction between the service and the content. Tivo provides no original content, they are only a conduit for the content of others. The Tivo service is the delivery platform. Similar in nature: cable boxes (receivers) who pollute the screens w/ ads. Different in nature: cable tv, the content is not theirs and as such, they are not responsible for the ads contained within and do not inject third patry advertising into the stream. People throw up magazines as a similar example - it isn't. One accepts advertising in magazines so that the cost of providing you with original content remains low, i.e., it is the content. If you want to keep comparing magazines, then a similar example would be if the post office inserts advertising into the magazine when delivering it to your door. Same argument for cable TV itself - they don't provide the content and don't inject advertising from third parties into the stream themselves as a revenue generation mechanism. I could go one, but these always digress into people like you making bad analogies and showing they just don't have a grasp of the underlying concepts at work, similar to what you have demonstrated in this thread.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings; accept my apology?
Boy, you live in a very different world than all the rest of us!
From your list, the folks I personally have gotten 3rd party ads from:
telephone, utilities (mostly non-profit ads in the bills), ISP, restaurants, hotels, banking institutions, hair salons.
Cable companies very strongly do "inject advertising from third parties into the stream themselves as a revenue generation mechanism". Where do you think all the local ads come from?
Besides, the original analogies were correct, and you're way off in your own world here as well. You're paying for a service, and that service includes ads. If there are too many ads for you, then by all means leave TiVo. But TiVo has no choice, at this point it's clear they will not ever make major profits without ads. They simply don't charge enough for their service. Or put another way: enough people aren't willing to pay more for the service, but are willing to put up with the few ads TiVo has.
Despite your preference for it to not be the case, the TiVo works the same way as a magazine. Your want to put boundaries on TiVo that simply aren't the case -- TiVo determines what will and will not be the boundaries of their service.
Yep, it's like criticizing Apple products. I suspect the same Apple cultists have joined the newer TiVo cult. Someday soon you can expect to see them in your local airport begging for money on behalf of Apple and/or TiVo while singing Kumbaya.
I most certainly do understand the situation. I had a friend who sold local ads for the local Comcast franchise. The cable company makes good money off of those deals, almost all gravy (though the ads are surprisingly cheap). Why do you think the cable companies advertise their advertising capabilities?
I'm not the one who is simultaneously claiming that
1) cable companies don't inject ads into the stream
2) cable companies are federally mandated to inject ads into the stream.
All of my other examples were businesses that gave me ads for 3rd parties in the ordinary course of doing their business with me. I see no reason why TiVo's ads are any more objectionable.
If that guy doesn't think hotels do third party spam, just stay at a Wingate hotel. I did, once, started getting all kinds of US mail, e-mail, and then even PHONE calls (yes I am on no call list) from people with tours, restaurants, and rental places about Williamsburg.
I got so many phone calls I started asking the phone ones why, having never stayed in Williamsburg. I can get there in 40 minutes, why would I ever...... but back to the story. One finally told me it was from Wingate, I had stayed just one night at the Charlotte NC one on a trip months before. Never, ever filled out anything like cards or slips, but they had asked my email when I made reservations, to send the confirm. I did get them to stop, still wonder why not push Charlotte instead of a hotel WHERE I LIVE and would never stay, they knew that, right on all the mailings I got....