TiVo Series 3

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by azvenigo, Jan 23, 2006.

  1. Bierboy

    Bierboy Seasoned gas passer

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    Fishers, IN
    Not really six tuners..."only" two with the ability to record any two combinations of the six you mentioned simultaneously.
     
  2. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean an enclosure an end user can buy for an existing drive?

    Pretty hard to beat the $20 external USB2<>IDE enclosure I got for Christmas. I also bought a $16 USB2<>IDE cable which is essentially the same guts minus the case.
    I wish they were firewire too..
     
  3. tfish77

    tfish77 New Member

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    I would just like to echo everyone on this board and say that I'm willing to spend my hard-earned cash on an HD/cable card/dual-tuner TiVO if only the company would be so f***ing kind as to release it for sale.

    Please?

    PLEASE??

    (please forgive the pseudo-profanity, but like the rest of you, I've been waiting a loooong time for this goodness.)
     
  4. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    yes but if the external drive goes bad your system does not go down with it. You may loose the shows but at least you can be back in business much quicker
     
  5. megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    .worcester.m...
    That was my phrasing. There will be two tuner 'sets', each one can do digital or analog cable, NTSC, or ATSC.
     
  6. FieryRobot

    FieryRobot Blue Steel

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    Does anyone have any more specific info than 'later this year'? Meaning, does anyone know if its more, say, Junish then Septemberish? Just trying to plan out what I want to do. These Series3 units seem pretty cool, but it does mean I'd have to switch to Comcast (I'm on DirectTV now). In the meantime, do I either not get HD until this happens, or go with a DirectTV HD TiVo and possibly go with Comcast/Series3 later... My TV arrives Sunday, and I want to use all the pixels to the best of my ability :p So the sooner I figure this out, the better. Woot!
     
  7. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    all we knoiw is second half of 2006 which means TiVo is not very firm on a date yet either or tehy would have at least specified a quarter instead of a half.

    if it was me I would switch to cable and lease a cable DVR until something TiVo was available to replace it. But then I do not use DirectTV so it is easy for me to say "switch to cable"
     
  8. Bierboy

    Bierboy Seasoned gas passer

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    Fishers, IN
    And I'm using the Sony DHG HD DVR until TiVo gets its act together. Picked one up for well under retail just to use until the Series 3 is available, then it's off to eBay. It's clunky (TVGOS) and only one-tuner, but it'll have to do. I ain't payin' the cable co. for anything more than basic at this point until Series 3.
     
  9. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    oops - good point bierboy on just using extended basic cable. that is all I use for now. Actually HD is not something I am buying into yet.

    I went with the SA TiVo in part because it would be 35$ a month to go digital and get the DVR from the cable company.
     
  10. Dennis Wilkinson

    Dennis Wilkinson Active Member

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    If the set has a QAM tuner, another option (albeit a DVR-less one) would be to get bare-bones, basic cable from Comcast, which would give you whatever they carry of OTA-broadcast HD. That's pretty much what I did--for about two weeks, anyway. I then broke down and rented a DVR from Comcast just so I could time-shift, biding my time until the Series 3 ships. Admittedly, I was already on cable when I did this.

    Given that the current HD TiVo for DirectTV seems pretty much end-of-life (with DirecTV and TiVo no longer buddy-buddy and the switch to MPEG4 for much HD content on DirecTV) I'd have a hard time justifying buying one right now.

    Edit: and that's what I get for starting a post before lunch and finishing it after...
     
  11. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    actually ATSC tuners dont need to mean HD outputs at all. The tuner and the outputs are 2 differnt things. In a couple years there will be a HUGE multimillion dollar market for converter boxes to receive ATSC and send it SD outputs so people with SD tv's receiving over the air tv can still use them when NTSC is shut down 1st quarter 2009. (actaully the goverenment will give everyone 2 rebates of $40 for converter boxes. WOuld be interesting if an SD outputting ATSC receiving tivo would count towards that $40 rebate from the governement.
     
  12. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    for the eSATA drives- it seems tivo implied they would allow any off the shelf drive that had enough throughput to work. So you could buy any eSATA drive from online or a B&M.

    If that comes to fruition Kind of puts weekneed et al out of business I would think (at least for new buyers). Why would I buy a drive from them when I can go to shopper.net and find a hundred dealers with cheaper prices selling generic eSATA drives?

    No need for DIY resources- likely the code will be built into the tivo so its automatic- like when you plug a usb thumbdrive into a modern PC.

    I DOUBT internal drives and hacking (besides HMO/HME/galleon type stuff) will be allowed- in order to be approved for the broadcast flag(assuming that congress passes the legislation allowing the FCC to promulgate that regulation) and for cablecard the things need to be very secure. Nevermind pissing off directv or cable- screwing the pooch on the broadcast flag is likely to have the FCC ban those pruducts form being sold. No more hacks to turn encrytpion off can be allowed. like all the internal hacking seems to allow (except maybe the newest directv combo?- not up on it all honestly) So that's even more of a motivator for them to make off the shelf eSATA work so as not to piss off customers used to upgrades.
     
  13. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    try to reencode a DVD to a smaller size on your pentium 4 computer. It takes a while. Doing that in real time is no simple task. Considering TiVo always seems to try to make do with the least amount of hardware possible, I wouldnt bet on a S3 having enough overhead to reliably do that. I guess maybe (i'm not all that knowledgable in that regard ) they could wire up some path to do it with the internal encoder instead of using CPU and software but that would require them to build in a chip that has the ability to handle a third stream in case you tuned to 2 analog channels and both encoders where busy.
     
  14. brebeans

    brebeans Member

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    Hi:
    Does anyone know if all of us loyal Tivo customers who do have Comcast, will get some kind of discount?

    Or, will we "punished" by having to pay the same as everyone else (and in addition to what we already pay for our Tivos) to access the same functionality?

    In other words, if you have a series two that is wirelessly networked, what are the advantages of purchasing Tivo through Comcast instead of directly?

    I do have Comcast, but don't want to pay extra for something that I already have with my stand alone Tivo.

    What are pros and cons of the Tivo deal with Comcast? Anyone know the details?
    Thanks.
     
  15. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    no one knows the timing of the series 3 or Comcast available to market.

    we do not know what features Comcast will make availble and which they will shut down. these are things like TTG, HME internet download of coentent, MRV
    That you will have to compare against what is important to you.

    we do know you will own the Series 3 outright and will have the features above and can add hard drive or mod the TiVo at your own risk, etc..

    we do know that Comcast will own the motorolla hardware the TiVo software will be running on. You will lease the whole thing from Comcast.

    Comcast is looking to nab DirectTV users who want TiVo and reduce churn for those already on Comcast but they are not looking to reward current customers of TiVo.
     
  16. Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    Yeah, but the enclosure maxes out at 120GB or so, right? Seems like all the ones that you can stick a cheap 300GB in, that has fans and such all come it at least $49.

    What Dan said is right for a single disk sata enclosure. What I still am super curious about is if we will be able to figure out how to bless a multi drive unit using one of the boards I mentioned earlier. It's easy to wonder why they'd want anything more than a formated MFS volume. But attempting to divine the ways of Tivo can be mysterious sitting from the comfortable distance of our armchairs.

    Anyway, there are plenty of sata enclosures, but the description is highly ambiguous. There are two things referred to as sata enclosures that are useless for an S3:
    • an enclosure that accepts SATA drives, but whose interface is something else (USB or firewire)
    • an enclosure that has more than one sata connector on the back.
    You can quickly eliminate anything that doesn't have a single eSata connector. Of course if all you are doing is a single drive then it will be way way cheap. But the coool coool thing as pointed out in the other note, would be if S3 works with multi drive enclosures. For example using a board that allows multiple SATA drives to appear as a simple volume. Such modules exist ($99) and are inexpensive for DIY and weaknees folks to use. I haven't seen a prebuilt 5 dirve enclosure under $450 though. But I do have some questions about capacity. As I recall the -r4 blocksize flag will only get you up to 1TB. But for this particular module, you can access 5 sata drives, and 500GB drives are shipping so jeez- that is 2.5TB right there.

    So besides the blessing question, we need to know if MFS will support larger blocks necessary. -r2 is 4MB blocks, and -r4 was 16MB blocks. If they can support addressing into 64M blocks, then that will hold us for a while, because we can then have single 4TB drives- either that or they remunge MFS to support more than two bytes for block numbers (yielding the 64K limit).

    I'll crawl back into my hole now...
     
  17. JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    Maybe you have a better understanding of the allocation issues than I do, but I don't see this as a limitation. With -r2 we were limited to 274GB in a single MFS zone.You could still use larger drives by splitting them up into multiple partitions/zones. With -r4, the single zone limit is 1TB, but you should still be able to reach 4TB simply by having multiple zones. I am not aware of a limit on the number of zones -- the data structure on disk is a linked list of zones. Allthough mfstools 2.0 assumes a one-to-one correspondence between partions and zones, this is not a requirement either. You can have multiple zones coalesced together in a single partition. That's the key idea behind this hack that gets around the "can't expand twice because you run out of partitions" problem.
     
  18. Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    I don't. Actually I have only rudimentary understanding. I have only read enough about MFS to understand what the tools were doing when I have done Tivo manipulations. I get curious about that sort of thing having mucked with file system internals before.

    So- what you wrote sounds interesting and I'd like to follow up if the need for a gigantor disk arises and no one has crushed the problem yet. I am only guessing about what a zone does in MFS, but your description gave be a good enough feeling for it. I would really like for the limit not to be some gorey situtation like "gotta wait to entirely rewrite the file system to use N Byte pointers because we wrote it using N-2 Byte pointers". From your note, it appears this is not the case. :)

    BTW- Cool forum there. But I'd like to quote your post here since I wouldn't like the data to disappear.
     
  19. JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    Thinking about this a little more, and remembering past discussions, I think there may be a 2TiB limit with the existing MFS data structures: sectors are 512 bytes, and all the sector addresses in MFS are 32 bits. So it may be something fundamental will have to change to get beyond 2TiB (2^32 * 512). With signed ints, the limit may be 2^31 * 512 = 1TiB. There was a post from a guy who hooked up a 1.6TB raid to an HR10-250. It mostly worked, but there were some UI anomalies.
     
  20. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    The online info for either my enclosure or the separate USB<>IDE cable (remember, they seem to be exactly the same thing except for the actual case) said it had a 250 gig limit... but nothing in either of the packages refers to that.
     

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