Tivo Series 3 - Bad capacitors in power supply

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by johnsom, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

    16,595
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

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    Failing power supplies cause all sorts of strange symptoms, so maybe your remote problem is related, but I'd try new batteries in it as well.
     
  2. markr33

    markr33 Member

    35
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    Dec 20, 2002
    South Florida
    Ha! I was about to go change the batteries and re-test it when I saw this post and had to answer it first :)

    Edit: I just inserted new batteries and no dice. Series 3 still not "hearing" (really "seeing" since it's IR) the remote. The TV responds to the remote as usual (and it did even before I swapped in new batteries).

    I sure hope I don't need a new front panel for the S3! (assuming the IR sensor is there somewhere)
     
  3. replaytv

    replaytv gun talk ignore list

    4,401
    1
    Feb 20, 2011
    Denver ish...
    I have a Series 3 TiVo TCD648250B with power supply problems and it has the clicking noise. The clinking corresponds with a flashing line on the TV screen. I know it is the power supply as I have disconnected the hard drive and the clicking continues and it is coming from the power supply. None of the capacitors look bad, but I want to replace all of them that have ever been known to go bad.

    I see the link to
    https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManage...sID=E2B62EF780

    Has anyone ordered that collection of capacitors lately and had them work and does that cover all the electrolytic capacitors that have failed? As cheap as the capacitors are, I am thinking I would possibly even consider replacing all the electrolytic ones in the power supply if you all think that would be a good idea.
     
  4. HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

    7,593
    1,114
    Jan 1, 2002
    Staunton, VA
    I believe a number of people have ordered from that project list (full link below) and it matches the list that I compiled when I repaired my S3 OLED although I ordered from Digikey.

    My Digikey list
    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9131293#post9131293

    Mouser project
    https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=1a42eea4c1

    These are the capacitors that have generally failed in the S3 OLED power supply although I believe one user here that repairs power supplies for others has found the large capacitor on the primary side of the transformer leaking in a couple.

    The ones that I did not replace are listed below. Someone else traced these out and indicated they are all on the primary side of the transformer (except for the 2.2uF). I don't have part numbers for these since I didn't replace them in either of my S3 OLED's.

    C306 2.2uF 50V 10mm 3mm?

    C220 47uF 50V 10mm 5mm
    C227 10uF 25V 10mm 3mm?

    C120 470uF 200V 40mm 20mm 10mm

    Scott
     
  5. vbgregg

    vbgregg Member

    32
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    Mar 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC

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    Hi,

    My TiVo HD stopped working. It seems to be getting power because the hard drive is spinning, the fan is blowing, and the ethernet lights (on the back) are on. But none of the lights on the front of the TiVo HD are lit and there is no signal passed to the TV. I tried another (TiVo formatted) hard drive and got the same results, so I'm thinking it's not the hard drive. Does this sound like it could be a bad capacitor problem? Or would I not be getting any power in that case? If not a bad capacitor, is there any other obvious problem that comes to mind? If it's a bad system board, I guess I'm out of luck, right?

    Thanks in advance for any help that you can provide.

    Gregg
     
  6. markr33

    markr33 Member

    35
    0
    Dec 20, 2002
    South Florida
    Now I have another annoying problem. The remote does not work, even with new batteries in it. But the iPhone and Android apps *also* don't work as a remote anymore. I can't figure out why. More than likely some odd network issue, but I haven't figured it out yet. My Tivo can communicate with the Tivo servers without a problem and I was able to setup a bunch of seasons passes and check my todo list from my Tivo login. Very odd. Any ideas?
     
  7. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

    16,595
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC


    Any possibility of some new source of stray IR (possibly as the invisible part of a visible light source, including sunlight) 'in the house' overwhelming the TiVo's front panel IR sensor?

    Put a blanket or thick dark towel over the TiVo hanging down over the front.

    Hold the remote under the blanket (this is also the way to set up slide switch remotes for individual TiVos if you have more than one in the same room) and see if the TiVo will respond to a channel change or whatever.
     
  8. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

    16,595
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    First, make sure you're using the "yellow jack" video output-composite video-for testing purposes. Sometimes the TiVo is fine *except* that the HDMI output has gone bad.

    You need to check the power supply's DC outputs with a voltmeter.

    The Series 3 HD and HD XL have 3.

    The yellow wires are the +12V section, the red wires are the +5V section, and the orange wires are the +3.3V section, and all the black are ground and negative, but you can ground the meter's negative lead to the metal chassis of the TiVo, preferably over on the side nearest the hard drive and furthest from the power supply.

    The power supply capacitors can "look" good and one or more still be going bad. Only a voltmeter (or oscilloscope used as one) can tell you if the outputs are sagging or not.
     
  9. vbgregg

    vbgregg Member

    32
    3
    Mar 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Thanks for the suggestion. I checked the power supply's DC outputs with a voltmeter. They appear to be working.

    As for the HDMI output, I will try the yellow video output, but even if the HDMI output is bad, shouldn't the front panel still light up? Even when it is in stand-by mode, the lights always come on when I push the Tivo button on the remote (and I assume they would also come on after rebooting, which I have tried about 15 times!).

    Is it looking more and more like a bad system board? Is there anything other than the system board that might be causing my problem?

    In fact, I forgot to mention, but after I first noticed that my TiVo had died, I unplugged it and then plugged it in again. For a fraction of a second, the lights on the front panel blinked, but then went dark. This happened the first few times that I powered off and on, but now the lights do not even blink. Does this suggest anything?

    Thanks,

    Gregg
     
  10. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

    16,595
    62
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    It suggests the possibility that your hard drive has failed in such as way that it tries to draw more current than it should (I recently had a drive do that and make the PC it was in appear dead--it was actually the power supply protection circuits protecting itself by refusing to try), so you're seeing what might be a good power supply, or might have been a good power supply, try to work and then be overwhelmed by the hard drive having a much lower resistance (higher current demand) than it should, which would pull the output voltages down.

    Although that should mean not getting +12V on the yellow wire and not getting +5V on the red, but something lower.

    Anyway, try it with the hard drive combo data/power cable unplugged from the hard drive and see what happens.

    There's a guy I can hook you up with in Raleigh from whom I've mail-ordered capacitors who could do the capacitor replacement repair on your power supply if it comes to that and you don't want to mess with it yourself.

    I forget who it was, but he's done one supply repair for a triangle area TCF'er I steered to him several months ago already.

    This place has the wrong email address on file for me (it's a long story), but you can PM me here.

    EDIT: If you can't PM me here you can post here telling me you need a couple more posts before you can PM and I can PM you my email address.
     
  11. vbgregg

    vbgregg Member

    32
    3
    Mar 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    A bad hard drive was my first thought, but I connected a different hard drive (that I had cloned earlier) and the front panel still did not light up. Also, the fan spun up at first, but now it does not, though I still get lights on the ethernet port and the hard drive spins. The voltages looked about right.

    I tried disconnecting the hard drive and still no front panel lights.

    A few days ago, when I figured it was a bad power supply, I ordered one from a guy on ebay. If that does not work, I will PM you about the repair guy in Raleigh.

    Thanks for all the help,

    Gregg
     
  12. vbgregg

    vbgregg Member

    32
    3
    Mar 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    You're right -- I don't have enough messages to PM anyone. I think I need 2 more, so I'll send a few more messages to the board before PM'ing you.
     
  13. vbgregg

    vbgregg Member

    32
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    Mar 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    One more should do it.
     
  14. vbgregg

    vbgregg Member

    32
    3
    Mar 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    I sent you a PM. I have a few questions. Can you please PM your email address to me? Thanks.

    Gregg
     
  15. TostitoBandito

    TostitoBandito Active Member

    346
    93
    Sep 17, 2006
    Mill Creek, WA
    I apologize if this has been stated elsewhere, but are the capacitors the same on the Rev A2 power supply from the Series 3?

    Mine died recently and I took it out today to look at it and noticed it was an A2 and not an A3 like this part list is for.

    I guess I could go snip all the capacitors off of mine and find out, but would prefer not to have to do that all up front if at all possible, so I don't lose track of anything.

    Thanks!
     
  16. bantar

    bantar Member

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    9
    Apr 27, 2004
    Don't make any assumptions. Either find the exact part list for YOUR Manufacturer & Model & Revision power supply, or make your own list. With the power supply removed, you should be able to read the ratings. I previously posted a detailed clarification in another thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9712622#post9712622 It might guide you a bit more.
     
  17. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

    16,595
    62
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Rule Number 1!!!

    KNOW WHERE BOTH ENDS OF THE TIVO'S POWER CORD ARE AT ALL TIMES!!!

    And when you have the top off the TiVo and the insides exposed and vulnerable to being touched or having something accidentally dropped onto them, don't have the cord plugged in unless necessary.

    During times when the TiVo is being "worked on", I suggest that you run an extension cord or power strip (preferably with a switch) from the wall socket and connect the TiVo power cord to the house's electrical system that way instead of getting down on your hands and knees to plug and unplug it at the wall socket. If anything goes wrong you want to be able to undo that connection as quickly as possible.

    And it's better to leave the TiVo end of the power cord plugged into the TiVo and plug and unplug the other end.



    Just to be certain, you have a TCD648250 or TCD648250B, and not a TCD652160 or TCD658000, correct?

    Does everything else here:

    3Y power supply: CP-1104 R2
    TiVo PN: SPWR-00008-000 Rev A3

    match except for the Rev A2 instead of A3?

    If so, your parts list is probably going to be quite similar if not identical, and the circuit board parts placement numbers (C401, C402, etc.) will probably mostly be the same as well.

    Those placement numbers only pertain to locations on the circuit board, the people from whom you obtain replacement caps won't know a thing about them, they'll only know about capacitance in microFarads (uF) and maximum Working Voltage (V) and Low ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) and a 105 degree Celsius/Centigrade rating.

    Go to the toothbrush aisle at the drug store and get one of those little mirrors on the end of a long handle--just to be on the safe side be sure everything but the mirror itself is plastic-no metal.

    And get a good bright flashlight.

    Take HerronScott's list, find the placement numbers on your circuit board, and check the uF and V values on the caps on your board against the ones on HerronScott's list.

    Where they differ, make notes.

    The power cord should not be plugged in while you do this.

    You'll soon discover that the people who design these things are fiendishly clever at arranging for the caps to be turned so that there's something keeping you from getting a good clear look at the part of the markings you need to see.

    That's what the mirror is for. Be careful about interpreting the backwards numbers.

    Comparing his list to your board should give you a feel for the intermediate physical size range of the caps that are the ones most likely to contain the bad ones--i.e., the ones involved in filtering the high frequency ripple out of the heavier DC currents on the board, so if you come up with an extra one, it'll probably have the same ratings as one of the others and you just increase your order to match.

    But if it isn't exactly the same, please post your list, with placement numbers, uF and V.

    If you decide to remove the board from the chassis to make it easier to get different viewing angles, remember that in addition to the several #10 Torx bit screws that hold it down, there's a small dark one that goes into the AC input jack from the outside on the back panel, and it takes a #8 or 9 Torx--you can probably get either to work.
     
  18. squint

    squint Member

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    Jun 15, 2008
    I have both versions and don't remember seeing any difference in capacitor values.
     
  19. timhbtr53

    timhbtr53 Grumpy Old Man

    314
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    Apr 24, 2014
    In the Deep...
    squint your right it's the same caps in both. I just did over 10 in the last few weeks and all caps same value. I can't find my pic of a A3 P/S right now but they use the same caps.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. TostitoBandito

    TostitoBandito Active Member

    346
    93
    Sep 17, 2006
    Mill Creek, WA
    Thanks for the info and confirmation guys. I've already got the PSU board out of the Tivo and have checked over the caps, noticing several bulging pretty good (401, 402, 501, 502, 504, 601, 701). I went ahead and ordered the set of 11 caps that cover where my problem area is, and I'll either replace them all or as necessary, depending what I feel like doing.

    And yes, I will examine all the caps and take notes as I remove them, to both make sure I'm putting the correct replacement in and also to note any differences I find.

    And for reference, I have a TCD648250B with the SPWR-00008-000 RevA2 PSU. Looks exactly like the picture timhbtr53 posted.
     

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