TiVo, say it isn't so!

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by dlfl, Mar 29, 2011.

  1. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    Jul 6, 2006
    Dayton OH


    Ouch! This isn't a new idea -- many of us have suspected it and many posts have claimed it. But when Dan203 says it, it has to be taken seriously.
  2. miller890

    miller890 Member

    Feb 15, 2002
    It's quite sad. Then you read articles like this one from http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivo030211.htm

  3. Aero 1

    Aero 1 Active Member

    Aug 8, 2007
    well, at least they have some kind of job security at tivo. :rolleyes:


  4. dgh

    dgh New Member

    Jul 24, 2000
    That's true about the retail presence. When my Series 1 started crashing on the data downloads I went back to the store where I bought it and they told me they didn't carry DVRs. Instead they referred me to the cable or satellite provider for those. When I mentioned buying my old TiVo there he agreed and remembered that "those were cool back in the day". As I wandered around, I did find two TiVos in boxes, eight feet up in the overstock area with no sign/price on them. None where on display.

    Later I went to Best Buy and got the same story about how they don't sell DVRs because they come from the satellite or cable company. When I mentioned TiVo, he said: We do have those! (Odd that "DVR" didn't include TiVo in his vocabulary). So he walked me over to an isolated spot where there was a TiVo on display and two boxes under it. He said it was basically the same old TiVo I bought in 2000 - "They haven't really changed anything about it." I got the impression that he thought that only old TiVo owners buy new TiVos so not changing was good.
  5. shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2008


    The truck roll to set up the cable cards must be a big factor. It's less hassle to get a cable company DVR. This is the major difference introduced to use a Tivo with cable.
  6. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

    Jan 2, 2004
    yep, the way cable card was handled by the FCC made standalone HD DVRs pretty much something only the foolish or the tech brave would get into.
  7. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    Jul 6, 2006
    Dayton OH
    I also think the CableCARD and Tuning Adapter implementations are a big part of the problem but I'm wondering if blaming it on the way the FCC handled it is realistic? My take on it is that it was a questionable concept to begin with -- I mean thinking the Cable Cos would do something that was technically complex and required very careful implementation when it wasn't in their business interest for the scheme to succeed.

    How could the FCC have handled it to get a better outcome?
  8. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    And those losses are mostly related to DirecTV subscribers with TiVo. I would have been one of them in if they had not come out with the Series 3. So I was able to dump DirecTV since they were not going to have a TiVo for their MPEG4 HD content. And went to Comcast and then to FiOS.
  9. pdhenry

    pdhenry Ruthless

    Feb 27, 2005
    Any good reason why provisioning a cable card should be any more daunting than provisioning a customer-owned cable modem? With a cable modem, I plug it in, enter my account info within the walled garden, and it works.

    With a cablecard there's more involved but industry could make pairing as simple to the customer as authorizing a cable modem, except that there's absolutely no incentive to do so.
  10. mercurial

    mercurial Retro-Av

    Oct 17, 2002
    Caraleigh, NC
    That's where the Cable providers screwed things up (not that they had reason not to). FiOS cable cards work very well because that's basically all they do and you just slap them in the TiVos. With TWC, at least, they have to no only authorize them but they also pair it to the particular slot in the TiVo so it's fraught with errors. And don't get me started on the CCI byte crap they pulled.
  11. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    Apr 17, 2000
    They could have pushed it through sooner. It took like 9 YEARS to get the spec finalized and then a couple more YEARS to enforce it. By that time the technology had moved so far ahead that CableCARDs were no longer a viable alternative to the cable supplied box. And even the people who were willing to deal with their shortcomings were greeted by incompetent installers, malfunctioning equipment and exorbitant "truck roll" fees just to get them.

  12. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

    Jan 2, 2004
    -The FCC could have retained control
    -sent it to a normal standards body
    -not allow a separate charge for the cable card unless they did the exact same separate charge for cable box with cable card (see cable modem reference - no one pays a sep. charge for the cable modem anymore)
    -make the cable card install follow the same process as a cable box

    number one with a bullet though -- only allow cablelabs to do hardware certification and keep the cable company out of the TiVo software.
    Let the content owners worry about the CCI flags and copy of shows or not.
    make it illegal for broadcasters to turn on the CCI flag but simply pass through what content owners hand them for CCI
    FCC makes TiVo comply with CCI flags as set by content owners

    oh and take less than 11 years to do the above
  13. shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2008
    They could have allowed the S3/HD to control one or more set top boxes and to allow mapping of QAM channels.
  14. SoBayJake

    SoBayJake Member

    Feb 6, 2002
    Los Angeles, CA
    You mean they could have controlled one SD box. Hardware was pretty expensive to record HD over compenent a few years ago. I've recorded HD over component this year, and it still loses a fair amount of quality.

    They could add QAM mapping. And I would love to see all the people complaining when the QAM map changes, and TiVo records the incorrect channel/program.
  15. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow Well-Known Dismembered Member (Lurk Mode On)

    Feb 5, 2011
    Whitewater, WI
  16. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    I believe for the most part, that bug fixes (those that don't affect functionality) are extinct for the older S2 Tivos. TiVo has that platform pretty stable (from what I can tell) and I don't think they'll be adding any more features that would make the software unstable.
    Series 3 models still seem to be addressed when a problem arises, but they usually have to affect functionality for TiVo to do something about them.

    Right now, I hope TiVo is focusing on finishing the Premiere.
    My S2ST and TivoHD are working fine right now so all the effort needs to be on the Premiere.
  17. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    Jul 6, 2006
    Dayton OH
    And on what planet would we find government agencies capable of such wonderful performance? I hope our new healthcare reform bill is implemented by those capable (imaginary) people. :rolleyes:
  18. dgh

    dgh New Member

    Jul 24, 2000
    Yes, many government agencies have been gutted over the last couple of decades. These days many people do what they want and laugh at the idea that any government agency has the staff to keep up with them. Then again, even if the FCC was better staffed, I'm not sure making the cable world safe for TiVo would have been high on their agenda. It's just a small money-loosing niche company from their point of view.
  19. MitchW

    MitchW New Member

    Jun 4, 2002
    TiVo should have marketed direct to cable companies. Dealing directly with the public hamstrung their growth.

    For example, I used to use the Tivo 1 and Tivo 2 and then moved to a cable company DVR. I now use the Motorola 1225 DVR which supports two other Motorola 1200 STB's. All the units can record and play from the single 1225.

    However, all this is via ATT Uverse. I believe Tivo was going to supply Comcast with DVR's but haven't heard much of it's progress.

    By dealing almost exclusively direct with the consumer Tivo missed it's market.

    By the way, Tivo used to work with an IR blaster wire over the Cable STB 10 years ago. Now Sony has released their NSX40GT1 HD TV which has internet access via Google Chrome and uses IR blaster to control the Motorola 1225 DVR and my Sony Blue Ray player. IR blasters are back in style once more.
  20. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

    Jul 24, 2001
    Milwaukee, WI
    Yes, except:
    - before separable encryption (CableCard), there's very little chance an MSO would ever consider a technology company without an end-to-end infrastructure solution
    - after separable encryption, the MSOs had already gotten very comfortably in bed with one of the companies that had an end-to-end infrastructure solution, and so it was at that point an uphill battle to get them to even consider a third party provider.

    It also doesn't help that TiVo has... well, a very TiVo interface. The MSOs are big into branding their particular interface to make it distinctly Time Warner, Comcast, etc. The two don't mix very well.

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