Tivo Roamio Setup using DECA to Connect Mini's

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by liv4snow, Nov 17, 2015.

  1. liv4snow

    liv4snow New Member

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    Nov 17, 2015
    I've decided to take the plunge. I bought amplified indoor antennas over a year ago and have been enjoying great HD quality TV. While I continue to work on getting my wife to join in on the idea of having TiVo so we can finally say goodbye to our satellite (currently less than $14 month with DVR), I am so ready to have HD on all of our home TVs.

    Last week I was able to get in on a couple of refurbished TiVo Mini's through Woot and am ready to pull the trigger on Amazon's TiVo Roamio Lifetime deal. I've already bought a 3 TB HDD to drop in, so I am afraid there is no going back now.

    My question is about networking. While it would be ideal to put the Roamio OTA in our living room and this would be my long-term goal, I need my wife to buy in first with using TiVo to replace our whole-home DVR and what better than in the bedrooms. So here is what I would like to do for my initial set-up until our satellite contract expires.

    Bedroom
    - Tivo Roamio
    - no internet connection, cable outlet in wall, 1 amplified indoor antenna. In fact upstairs is where I tend to get the best OTA coverage so I'd prefer to use the upstairs antenna as the main antenna if possible.


    Living room
    - Mini
    - Internet router,
    - cable in from dish, cable return from bedroom, cable drop to basement,
    - Amplified OTA antenna (limited coverage on one of our primary channels we watch)


    Basement
    - cable in wall
    - Mini

    My questions:

    ?? Can I feed ethernet from living room through cable in wall and return OTA signal from bedroom to living and basement? Or would I need a MOCA to do this?

    I'd like to use DECA if at all possible to $ave some $$. My question is how many DECAs would I need and would I need more than one with power-outlet. Both Amazon and Ebay sell DECAs without power outlet and with.

    Can I use DECA to push both OTA signal and Ethernet? If not, and I think the answer is NO, then can I push the ethernet to each device I assume with DECA as long as my Roamio OTA is in bedroom with antenna? The Mini's don't need the OTA signal do they to watch live or recorded TV as long as they have ethernet correct? There are too many forums to read on this site, I think my head is spinning.

    Then if I decide to relocate the OTA Roamio to my living room, I can look at replacing that amplified antenna with a better one or look into an outdoor antenna.a
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,477
    2,797
    Nov 25, 2003
    I'm not sure what this means. You're only paying $14 per month for satellite with a DVR?
     
  3. liv4snow

    liv4snow New Member

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    Nov 17, 2015
    Yes, I am on a customer retention plan with the satellite provider. But the whole home DVR only has HD on one TV. The other TVs are in SD as is playback. That's why its so hard for my wife to say goodbye to cable. We get all of the local channels + a few others.

    I think this topic was covered by some other subscribers in another thread.
     
  4. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

    2,547
    514
    Feb 19, 2015
    Hi,
    I can answer some of your questions but only for after you finish with satellite TV. You will need Deca units with the power adapter otherwise they are useless for your purpose. You will need 4 units, one for each Tivo and one to connect to your router for internet connection, which you make no mention of.
    When the time comes to switch over to OTA, the one thing to remember is that the coax feed to your Roamio has to be isolated from the antenna. If you have cable internet, that will have to be isolated and run directly to your modem.
    This is going to be difficult enough after you finish with satellite to try and combine all before is extremely complicated and would require multiple cable runs.
     
  5. jimbop99

    jimbop99 Member

    65
    5
    Sep 27, 2004
    Kentuciana
    Can I use DECA to push both OTA signal and Ethernet?

    No you can't have the antenna and deca on the same cable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  6. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

    3,295
    1,141
    Aug 13, 2015
    Do you currently have Dish or DirecTV? If Dish, you can't use DECA until Dish is disconnected, unless you want to run new cables.

    I don't think this will be bad at all. Just a powered DECA at each Tivo and at your router, as the previous poster said.

    Connect antenna directly to your Roamio. Minis don't need it.

    There is a typo in the previous poster's response. He meant you CAN'T have DECA and OTA on the same cable.

    Think of each powered DECA as simply an adapter that goes from coax to ethernet. All Tivos need to be connected together via DECAs, and the coax network needs to bridge to your LAN via a DECA.

    If you used Moca instead, you'd need just one Moca adapter if you relocated your Roamio so that it could plug directly into your router. Otherwise you'll need a second Moca adapter for it. Minis have built in Moca. Another benefit is you can have OTA and Moca on the same cable.

    I just replaced my DECA system with Moca and can give you a deal on as many as you need. You'll need 4 for the system you've proposed. PM if interested.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  7. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2015
  8. liv4snow

    liv4snow New Member

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    Nov 17, 2015
    We currently have DISH. Based when your advice, it sounds like it may be easier and cheaper in the long-run to get get a MoCA instead of buying 4 DECAs. I won't be running any satellite through the house cables once I start using the MoCa. The drop from the satellite dish comes in directly behind our living room TV. So as long as it connects only to the receiver, I should be okay.

    Its not a problem moving the Roamio OTA box to the living room (that's where I want it long-term anyway) since the Internet drop also comes in there. The Internet is a dedicated line and actually the modem and router both set behind our living room TV. I can connect it to a MoCA and Roamio and feed the rest of the house using the existing cable line.

    I know this is covered on the TivoCommunity forum if I use DECA or MoCA, where do I plug the first MoCa or Deca adapter in at. Does it get connected to the ethernet line between the router and Roamio or do I connect Roamio up directly to router and then from Roamio to MoCa or Deca adapter and then house cable feed?

    Why 4 DECAs? Is 4 only needed if I use the originally proposed method? What if I move the Roamio box to living room and put Mini in bedroom? Do I still need 4 DECAs if I hook Roamio to router and Roamio on to cable in wall? I have a total of 3 TVs.

    If I understand, I think I need 4 DECAs 1 between router and Roamio, 1 after Roamio to wall and 1 at each wall outlet for TV 2 and TV3. But if I go the MoCa route, I'd only need one MoCa and would plug it in from internet router to Roamio, correct?

    Then my only dilemma will be the weaker amplified indoor antenna I have in the living room. I suppose once cable is gone, I can disconnect satellite dish from the home and replace with outdoor antenna to feed and power Roamio rather than using living-room indoor antenna.

    Also the internet coming in to the home is Fiber and has never had TV service. Could this be a problem if the Fiber internet provider offers cable and internet services but I don't subscribe to it? I know on this forum others have mentioned that they could be still sending TV signals still via the internet.
     
  9. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Aug 13, 2015
    If you can connect your Roamio directly to your router via ethernet, it doesn't need any Moca connection at all. If you have only coax near your Roamio, that's when you need Moca to convert ethernet to coax.

    You need DECA where ever there is no direct ethernet connection. If you connect your Roamio directly to your router, then it doesn't need a DECA adapter. Each Mini needs one, plus you need one to bridge your coax to your router.

    Not quite correct. It depends on how your Roamio is connected to your router.

    Case 1: Roamio connected directly to router
    DECA
    - DECA between coax and router (bridges your LAN and coax networks)
    - DECA at Mini 1
    - DECA at Mini 2

    Moca
    - Moca between coax and router (bridges your LAN and coax networks and creates Moca network)

    Case 2: Roamio not connected directly to router
    - DECA between coax and router (bridges your LAN and coax networks)
    - DECA at Roamio to provide ethernet connection
    - DECA at Mini 1
    - DECA at Mini 2

    Moca
    - Moca between coax and router (bridges your LAN and coax networks and creates Moca network)
    - Moca at Roamio to provide ethernet connection

    While Moca can coexist on the same line as normal cable TV and broadband, who knows what kind of signals your fiber ISP is using. So I'd play it safe and keep it physically isolated from your Moca/DECA network.

    FWIW, besides the fiber thing, I have pretty much the same setup as you and have used both DECA and Moca with it. I do have a direct ethernet connection from my router to my Roamio, so my setup is like Case 1. However, I wanted to also connect a PC to my LAN in a 4th room, so have an additional Moca adapter for that. The main reason I switched from DECA to Moca was to get higher network speeds on that PC in the 4th room. Otherwise DECA would have worked fine for Tivo and has in fact worked fine for years, since long before I ever got Tivo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  10. liv4snow

    liv4snow New Member

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    Nov 17, 2015
    Thanks, this makes much more since. I have 100 mb service now but will be switching ISP providers in the next few months once Google runs the line from the street to ourhouse. So it sounds like it would be worth my efforts to go ahead and do MoCa anyway. Plus it will give me faster internet speed from the wall at other points around the house to daisy chain off of.
     
  11. liv4snow

    liv4snow New Member

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    Nov 17, 2015
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,477
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    Nov 25, 2003
    As an aside, if you're also researching MoCA as a mechanism to improve your home network's "backbone," know that there are 2 versions of MoCA devices currently available for cable TV/OTA: MoCA versions 1.1 and 2.0.

    MoCA 1.1 is capable of 170 Mbps, but is often limited to 100 Mbps, in practice, by the Fast Ethernet port of the typical MoCA adapter. MoCA 2.0 is rated to <400 Mbps in standard mode, and up to <800 Mbps in extended or bonded mode (with available adapters correctly using Gigabit Ethernet ports!). Certified MoCA 2.0 devices are theoretically able to communicate at full MoCA 2.0 speeds with other MoCA 2.0 peers, even with MoCA 1.1 devices present.

    Some example Ethernet-to-MoCA bridges and their theoretical bridge rates (to my knowledge):

    Actiontec ECB2500C (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => 100 Mbps
    Channel Master CM-6001 (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => 100 Mbps
    Channel Master CM-6004 (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => 100 Mbps
    "Verizon" MI424-WR Rev. F (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => 100 Mbps

    Actiontec ECB3500T (MoCA 1.1, GigE) => 170 Mbps
    Actiontec WCB3000N (MoCA 1.1, GigE) => 170 Mbps
    "Verizon" MI424-WR Rev. I (MoCA 1.1, GigE) => 170 Mbps
    TiVo Premiere 4/XL4 (MoCA 1.1, GigE) => 170 Mbps
    TiVo Roamio Plus/Pro (MoCA 1.1, GigE) => 170 Mbps

    TiVo BOLT (std MoCA 2.0, GigE) => <400 Mbps
    Actiontec ECB6000 (std MoCA 2.0, GigE) => <400 Mbps
    ...(announced "TiVo Bridge" is rebranded ECB6000)
    Quantum Gateway G1100 (std MoCA 2.0, GigE) => <400 Mbps

    Actiontec ECB6200 (ext MoCA 2.0, GigE) => <800 Mbps
    Actiontec WCB6200Q (ext MoCA 2.0, GigE) => <800 Mbps

    Comcast XB2/XB3 Gateways (MoCA 2.0 ???, internal) => ???


    * NOTE: Estimated rates assume equivalent MoCA peer.

    For reference:
    TiVo Mini v1,v2 (MoCA 1.1, FastE) => connect-only via MoCA; cannot bridge!
    TiVo Roamio base & OTA (n/a, FastE) => no built-in MoCA capability

    edit: Updated MoCA 2.0 data rate limits; 24Mar2019 corrected XL4 rate (h/t Bigg and socrplyr)
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  13. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Aug 13, 2015
    The ChannelMaster adapters work great. I use the 6001 and 6004 in my system. I have a spare 6004 just gathering dust in my closet if you want one a little cheaper.

    With no Tivos in the picture at all yet, you'd actually need two Mocas to get ethernet to a second room - one to bridge your coax to your router and another at the other end of your coax where you intend to use it (TV3 room?). Think of each as a coax/ethernet adapter. Got to have some way to convert back from coax to ethernet at the end. Mini has this built in, hence no adapter required in that case.

    And don't forget, this isn't compatible with Dish signals. So make sure you don't use any of those wires.
     
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,477
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    Nov 25, 2003
    Focusing on the spousal buy-in, your plan to get the Roamio working in the Bedroom, where you have the best antenna reception, seems like a critical piece of the plan, to ensure the Roamio's recording capabilities are given the best possibility to shine.

    Phase 1: Short-term, I'd just get the Roamio OTA setup in the Bedroom, connected to your router and the Internet via Wi-Fi. This will allow you to verify that all its bits work and then, once comfortable, upgrade it using the 3TB hard drive. Once the hard drive is in place, you can begin getting it populated with content: setup all your scheduled recordings and initialize all the streaming apps (as needed).

    This will allow you and your wife to evaluate the DVR's interface and capabilities.

    Phase 2: In the meantime, you can pursue the MoCA networking option and, once stable, the Roamio can be switched to a wired connection via a MoCA adapter co-located in the Bedroom -- allowing evaluation of the TiVo Mini experience, and hopefully achieving spousal buy-in.

    Phase 3: Final tweaks, as you say, could include migrating from an indoor antenna to outdoor, relocating the Roamio, integrate PLEX, etc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,477
    2,797
    Nov 25, 2003
    Just wanted to throw one last thing into the mix... the TiVo BOLT.

    If you've already considered the BOLT, nevermind; otherwise ...

    At $300, the initial investment would be the same for the BOLT, relative to the Lifetime'd Roamio OTA on Amazon ...
    ... plus, you'll gain some additional benefits:
    • SkipMode commercial skip feature (on the BOLT *and* connected Minis)
    • Built-in MoCA 2.0 bridging capability
    • Built-in mobile streaming capability (do you have smartphones or tablets?)
    • Gigabit Ethernet
    • Dual-band Wireless AC (moot, once wired)
    • 4K support
    • Beefier processor
    • Improved PLEX resolution support(?)

      NOTE: Not listing QuickMode or Channel Logos, since those are due to hit Roamios soon.

      See here for BOLT specs (PDF).
    .... but not without a few potential downsides:
    • subscription service plan vs lifetime ($150 annually after 1st year; though, viewed monthly, would be slightly less than current satellite plan)
    • hard drive upgrade options more limited
    • HDMI video only (no composite or component support)
    • appearance (white and bendy)
      ... additions...
    • inability to disable Overlap Protection (clipping)
    • no Hulu app


    Looking strictly at the MoCA aspect, the BOLT would allow you to get a single Actiontec ECB6200 (or TiVo Bridge) MoCA adapter for installation at the router to allow the BOLT, initially setup in the Bedroom, to connect to your router at MoCA 2.0 rates; later, when the BOLT is migrated to the Living Room and begins providing the MoCA bridge, the ECB6200 can be placed elsewhere in the house to supply a 400+Mbps pipe through the BOLT to the router and Internet.

    Of course, if you just start with the BOLT in the Living Room, you wouldn't need to buy any MoCA adapters to solely support the TiVo whole home solution.


    edit: p.s. There's this, as well, which could help pay for your TiVo setup: $5000 Grand Prize: Show Us Your BOLT contest
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,477
    2,797
    Nov 25, 2003
    Oh, also, TiVo's Continual Care warranty should also be considered when evaluating Lifetime/All In service against a subscription plan.

     
  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,477
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    Nov 25, 2003
    If those were v1 Minis, be aware that their remote is different from the Roamio OTA's (and also from the Mini v2 and the BOLT), as this can sometimes affect acceptance.

    See here for more info.
     
  18. liv4snow

    liv4snow New Member

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    Nov 17, 2015


    What are your thoughts on this MocA 2.0? Yes it is from China but at a fraction of the cost for a US brand. Might be worth trying out a couple to see what the speed is. Even if it falls short of the 500 mb speed, I am certain it will be faster still than a MoCa 1.1.

    Product listed on Alibaba site. search MoCa 2.0 Linky
    Hello
    This is Stephane from Yitong Technology Group,

    Our Moca 2.0 adapter can offer 500mbps/sec



    The price of our product Moca 2.0 Device - 1 ethernet port 1Gbps is 23USD/unit

    The price of our product Moca 2.0 Device - 4 ethernet port 100Mbps is 26USD/unit

    The price of our product Moca 1.1 Device - 1 ethernet port 1Gbps is 18USD/unit

    The price of our product Moca 1.1 Device - 4 ethernet port 100Mbps is 21USD/unit

    We are professional CATV Equipment manufacturer specialized in the field of Optical Transmitter, Optical Amplifier, Optical Modulator, EOC and Optical Receiver for more than 14 years.

    We provide customers with 1)OEM Service; 2)Low MOQ; 3)Reasonable Price, 4)Fast Delivery; Sincerely hope that we can have to chance to cooperate, and establish long-term business relationship with your distinguished company.

    Best Regards!

    ****************************************************

    Stephane LAM

    International Sales Representative

    Jiangsu Yitong High-tech Co.,Ltd.

    Mobile:+86 15895611268

    28,Tongling Rd.,Changshu,P.R.C 215500

    http://en.yitong-group.com

    http://jsyitong.en.alibaba.com

    Skype : stephanelam8




    The MoCa 2.0 with 1 Gbps ethernet port seems to be the route to go, correct? Otherwise, even with MoCa 2.0 you still will be limited to about 100 mb speed if that is all the ports support, correct. Still good price though if you need 4 ports. Has anybody had good or bad experience with buying MoCas off Alibaba site?

    The product spec sheets are too big. I'll try and copy and paste in a separate messsage.​
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  19. liv4snow

    liv4snow New Member

    14
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    Nov 17, 2015
    YTMC-51N1-M
    ETHERNET TO COAX MOCA NET
    WORK ADAPTER
    FOR CABLE TV HOUSEHOLDS
    • YTMC MoCA coax adaptor can be interlinked with any networking device at your
    home, including but not limited to IPTV, media centers,DVRs, Xbox, PS4, Blueray
    players...) by transmitting Ethernet signal and video signal in one single cable.
    • Complied with MoCA2.0 standard, having 700Mbps PHY layer and 400Mbps MAC
    layer transmission rate, respectively.
    • One Coax In/Out port, one Video output port, one or multiple Ethernet port to meet
    differing networking requirement
    • Plug and play.
    • Support up to 16 adaptors to be able to communicate with each others at same time.
    • Supports full Ethernet speed
    • Uses existing coax cabling
    • Reduced beacon power level
    • Up to 1004 Mhz RF signal pass through
    • Has multiple frequency band, various network condition can be addressed.
    • Coexistence with cable TV services
    • Having auto and dynamic selecting main control adaptor function, main control
    adaptor can be automatically reselected when it’s down.
    CATV
    Chip technology MoCA2.0 technology
    Support protocols IEEE802.3, IEEE802.3x, IEEE802.3u etc.
    Modulation OFDM,TDMA/TDD
    Channel Bandwidth MHz 100
    Operating FB MHz 975-1125,1150-1500 etc.
    Max. Attenuation dB 75
    PHY Data Rate Mbps 700
    MAC Data Rate Mbps 400
    Encryption 128-bit AES
    Number of Ethernet
    Ports
    Pcs 1-4
    LED Power, Coxa, Ethernet
    Power Supply DC 5V/2A
    Power Consumption W &#8804; 5
    Operating
    Environment
    °C Storage :-20-70
    °C Operating Temp:0-55
    Humidity:5% - 95%
     
  20. liv4snow

    liv4snow New Member

    14
    0
    Nov 17, 2015
    YTMC-51N1-M
    ETHERNET TO COAX MOCA NETWORK ADAPTER
    FOR CABLE TV HOUSEHOLDS
    &#61623; YTMC MoCA coax adaptor can be interlinked with any networking device at your
    home, including but not limited to IPTV, media centers,DVRs, Xbox, PS4, Blueray
    players...) by transmitting Ethernet signal and video signal in one single cable. &#61623; Complied with MoCA1.1 standard, having 300Mbps PHY layer and 175Mbps MAC
    layer transmission rate, respectively. &#61623; One Coax In/Out port, one Video output port, one or multiple Ethernet port to meet
    differing networking requirement &#61623; Plug and play. &#61623; Support up to 16 adaptors to be able to communicate with each others at same time. &#61623; Supports full Ethernet speed
    &#61623; Uses existing coax cabling
    &#61623; Reduced beacon power level &#61623; Up to 1004 Mhz RF signal pass through
    &#61623; Has multiple frequency band, various network condition can be addressed. &#61623; Coexistence with cable TV services
    &#61623; Having auto and dynamic selecting main control adaptor function, main control
    adaptor can be automatically reselected when it’s down.
    CATV

    Product Specs
    Chip technology MoCA1.1 technology
    Support protocols IEEE802.3, IEEE802.3x, IEEE802.3u etc.
    Modulation OFDM,TDMA/TDD
    Channel Bandwidth MHz 50
    Operating FB MHz 975-1125,1150-1500 etc.
    Max. Attenuation dB 75
    PHY Data Rate Mbps 270
    MAC Data Rate Mbps 175
    Encryption 128-bit AES
    Number of Ethernet
    Ports
    Pcs 1-4
    LED Power, Coxa, Ethernet
    Power Supply DC 5V/2A
    Power Consumption W &#8804; 5
    Operating
    Environment °C Storage :-20-70
    °C Operating Temp:0-55
    Humidity:5% - 95%
     

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