TiVo restarts but only when connected to Internet

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by TishTash, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. TishTash

    TishTash Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2008
    Merrick, NY

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    Here's a conundrum: My TiVo Roamio Plus started restarting spontaneously, about two minutes in from a reboot. To save you the boredom of all the permutations the unit was put through (including numerous KickStarts), ultimately we found that if the Internet connection was severed, the rebooting stopped. Whether it was through wireless, Ethernet, or MoCA, any connection to the 'Net would start the restart cycle.

    Anybody come across this before? And any solutions? As of now, I quickly connect to the TiVo service every couple weeks to keep the Guide updated, but I have to sever the Internet connection right after the data download lest the rebooting start again ... so it's getting old. Thanks in advance for any answers!
     
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  2. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Can you put a new hard drive in and see if it does the same thing? Doesn't have to be a big hard drive, any size will do. If the new hard drive doesn't have the issue, then you can go through debug on the old hard drive, like testing for bad sectors, kickstart 57 to repair filesystem, repeat guided setup, clear and delete everything, etc.
     
  3. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    If you put a different HDD in, aren't all the programs lost on the original drive when you put it back in?
     
  4. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Are they? I've switched back to original drive on an S3 OLED to debug hard drive issues when my upgraded drive was going bad. Then I recovered my failing upgraded drive using dd-rescue to another drive. Then I placed the recovered upgraded drive back in and didn't lose any shows.

    Maybe a brand new drive might trigger something different vs a previosly-installed drive bound to the correct TSN? If that is the case, skip the new drive suggestion and you can perform increasing levels of diagnostics on the drive (as if the new drive suggestion came back working)
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
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  5. TishTash

    TishTash Active Member

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    Sounds like a solid plan. Thanks.
     
  6. CinciDVR

    CinciDVR Contentious Member

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    Cincinnati, OH
    Two minutes in from a reboot. Does that mean it gets to the point where you can choose options from the Tivo screen? Or does it mean that it reboots in the middle of booting up?

    What version of the firmware is your Tivo running? Maybe it's trying to install new firmware and is having problems?

    When you do connect to update the guide, do you watch the steps it goes through? Does it seem like it's doing anything other than downloading guide data?

    What happens if connect it to the network and then use a smartphone app or computer to access the Tivo, but don't update the guide data? Does that cause it to reboot?
     
  7. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    I am having a similar problem. With a Roamio Plus that was purchased refurbished in Dec 2016. I thought it was ramdomly rebooting but it does seem to happen the most when connecting to the net for program updates. Since it is also connecting to the net at other times maybe it is only when it is connecting when the problem happens, I have not tried completely disconnecting from the net yet (that may be my next test)

    As for what I have tried, I've tried 3 drives, the original and a couple others, one a brand new 2TB. Still reboots randomly? (or again maybe only when accessing the net) with all drives. Sometime just while watching live TV.

    You say you have tried the kickstarts, that is what I came here to ask about when I saw your post. The Roamio has a hard drive and a flash drive. I was wondering if a kickstart would rebuild the flash drive in case that is what is causing the problem. But if you have tried the kickstarts with no resolution perhaps not (or perhaps it is something other than the flash drive or hard drive). I've setup 23 hour daily recordings to test, when I check the recordings I can see if it rebooted, will get partial recordings that stop and restart after a reboot. Guess my next step is to disconnect from the net entirely for awhile to see what happens. I did try Ethernet and wireless.

    Regardless of all this I am curious if any of the kickstarts will rebuild the flash drive. If no solution found guess I will have to call Tivo and see if they will replace/repair it.
     
  8. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, the 3 drives, the two other than the original, I copied the original onto those two drives using MFS Tools as I wanted to keep recordings if possible. I am also considering doing a complete clear and delete everything if nothing else solves the problem. Pretty much what I have left to try, disconnect from the net entirely, try kickstarts and/or clear and delete everything.
     
  9. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    I have never had a problem with swapping drives back and forth with S3/S2, all recordings fine. With a BOLT you lose everything when swapping drives around, even if you do nothing to the original, it gets wiped other than some remnants, all recordings gone for sure. Not absolutely sure with a Roamio, I've swapped valid copies/originals and have not lost anything though some strange things can happen, like saying not connected to the Tivo service even though the internet connection is fine. I solved that only by unplugging and plugging back in the Tivo. Roamios and Bolts use flash drives along with the HDs, I think the Bolt must have more on the flash drive than the Roamio, perhaps that is why you lose everything with swapping drives in a Bolt, on BOTH/all drives (I've tried 3).
     
  10. TishTash

    TishTash Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2008
    Merrick, NY
    Sorry for the late reply:

    1) I can certainly play around with the TiVo -- until it reboots spontaneously. I can do everything in fact in those two minutes. The bootup process is unaffected and proceeds without incident.

    2) The TiVo has the latest firmware. In fact, installing updates is not affected (as long as the internet is disconnected); unfortunately, the booting up has not been resolved with the latest updates.

    3) The downloading of new Guide data is unaffected. As long as I disconnect the internet after the download (of either the Guide data or in the instance of a System Update), the loading of updates is unaffected and proceeds without incident.

    4) Connecting to a network itself is not affected. For example, if I disconnect the internet at the modem end, but keep the local network intact, the TiVo does not reboot, and can be accessed remotely via the TiVo app.

    Again, the reboots begin when and only if an internet connection is active. The closest I can figure is the updating of the banner (or perhaps some other internet activity) is running into some sort of hard disk problem that causes the reboots, but that's all I got.
     
  11. TishTash

    TishTash Active Member

    542
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    Jan 23, 2008
    Merrick, NY
    You're better off than I am: At least it appears your issue has to do with updates only. Mine appear two minutes after booting up, no matter what, so as mentioned, it seems like some kind of Internet activity itself is at fault.
     
  12. TishTash

    TishTash Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2008
    Merrick, NY
    I just realized that during downloads, which can take a while given the two-week backlog, the TiVo does NOT reboot, as long as I stay on the old low-def "Progress" screen. This appears to implicate the internet activity that updates the program banner on the home screen. Now that the Settings screen is now in high-def (but still doesn't display the banner), it will be interesting to see if this remains the case.
     
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  13. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    If it matters, two minutes after a TiVo restarts, a VCM Connection is made. Nobody knows what it does, but it's related to telling TiVo about your box, and syncing up with TiVo Online.com.
     
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  14. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    Riverside, CA
    it might be time to drop in a new hdd and see what happens. Save as many of your recordings as you can to a pc first.

    Btw, you say it has the latest firmware, that means rc24 that's come down in the last couple of weeks?
     
  15. TishTash

    TishTash Active Member

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    Merrick, NY
    That's possible. Should I force-connect right after a restart or connection to the internet, that would prevent a VCM from occurring. And should I not disconnect from the internet during loading, that would allow a VCM, resulting in a restart.

    Anyone know how to stop a VCM? :^D
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  16. TishTash

    TishTash Active Member

    542
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    Jan 23, 2008
    Merrick, NY
    Yes. Once I force-connected to TiVo, then disconnected from the internet while the update loaded, RC24 was installed.
     
  17. CinciDVR

    CinciDVR Contentious Member

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    May 24, 2014
    Cincinnati, OH
    Given that it only reboots when it has a connection to the internet, and not when it only has a local network connection, it would seem unlikely that the reboots are caused by a hardware problem with your Ethernet module. So if it's hardware related, your theory about it running into a problem accessing the hard disk during a download from the internet would seem to be as good as any. I suppose it could also be possible that's it's trying to update non-volatile memory with data from the internet and that's causing a problem. But it seems strange that if there's a hardware problem it would only manifest itself during an internet connection.

    I think at this point I would lean more toward it being a Tivo commanded reboot. Maybe it connects to the internet and gets an unexpected result so the system commands a reboot in hopes that a fresh start will fix the problem.

    Have you looked at the System Info screen to see when its last successful connections were made? Given the implication that a VCM connection is made about two minutes in, what is the last successful VCM connection that your Tivo shows?

    Not sure how technical you are, but you could also try looking in the Tivo logs to see if you find anything that looks related. While on the System Info screen, press the following keys:
    Clear
    Clear
    Enter
    Enter
    0


    That will allow you view the various Tivo logs. Maybe something there will give you a clue.
     
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  18. TishTash

    TishTash Active Member

    542
    67
    Jan 23, 2008
    Merrick, NY
    It's a MoCA connection, but what you say applies nonetheless. If I keep the internet connection off for a couple hours, then reconnect, the TiVo may not restart for upto a couple hours -- possibly when a VCM is attempted.
     
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  19. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Attempts, failures and next scheduled VCM connections are in System Information. However, you can trigger one by changing something. For instance, a guide update, which changes your To Do List can cause a VCM connection, as can a change in your channel list (but not always). The whole VCM thing is a mystery, but there are some actions that are predictable.
     
  20. Sparky1234

    Sparky1234 Well-Known Member

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    I had this go bad: Ethernet module. Bent wires...
     

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