TiVo Premiere MRS Choppy

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by Cure, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. Cure

    Cure Maxwell Perkins

    45
    0
    Jan 3, 2003
    Philadelphia...
    How is everyone doing with this? I've been trying to watch the Australian Open in different rooms but MRS just doesn't work. It stutters and stops like you're watching something with an incredibly low frame rate. I don't think it's my network; one TiVo is hardwired with Ethernet and the other one is wireless.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. tomm1079

    tomm1079 Member

    572
    1
    May 10, 2005
    everything i read says you should have both hardwired. I have my tivos setup with powerline adaptors and have no issues.
     
  3. xberk

    xberk Member

    211
    17
    Dec 3, 2011
    If you have coax running in the house, go with a MOCA network. Some users are running successfully on wireless but some NOT. I believe everyone on MOCA is reporting solid MRV/MRS results on Premiere boxes running under 20.2. MRS is between TIVOs, so I'd say the wireless part of that connection is the problem.
     
  4. wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    If it's truly related to Wifi, then there is a problem with how MRS is streaming. 802.x (take your pick, .11b, n, etc) while not full duplex is far more than sufficient to handle the bitrate of HD streaming content. Assuming of course that the Wifi connection on the 2nd box is a good connection with low latency (it's really a latency and not a bandwidth issue) and assuming there is not some sort of external interference, Wifi should have no negative effect whatsoever. Now, as we all know, the Tivo network interfaces seem to have performance throttles on them somehow (at the Tivo device/sw level) that I don't fully understand (ie, Tivo HD to Tivo HD transfers horribly slow even on totally wired connections) so it may well be network related, but is more likely network in that the Tivo cannot effectively use available network resources. Or, like other issues, it has nothing to do with it and is solely Tivo SW related.

    Anyway, since MRS is only between Premieres and cannot be done from a Premiere to/from an S3 or HD, probably there is relatively little knowledge yet.
     
  5. compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

    1,914
    346
    Oct 6, 2011
    No issues here with wireless N
     
  6. wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    BTW, let me be more clear. The various Wifi standards have massivly more capability than required to stream HD content. Basic 802.11b can handle multiple simultaneous HD streams with zero issues - with no compression. It is routinely done on millions of other devices. Encrypted realtime HD streaming audio/video is routinely moved via Wifi for security systems, corporate services, etc. If in fact Wifi is involved in this issue it is NOT because Wifi as a medium is the problem, but that either the specific implementation (range, obstructions, external interference) or the TIVO implementation itself (Tivo SW, Tivo HW) are the problem. That's all I was trying to say.
     
  7. xberk

    xberk Member

    211
    17
    Dec 3, 2011
    Your point is well taken. No argument. Still for a HOME network, and given the normal HOME level of technical expertise in diagnosing and solving network issues .. If you have the coax already running and you have streaming issues .. -- MOCA is CLEARLY the way go for your Premieres. No problem using your WiFi router at the same time. My 2 cents.
     
  8. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

    7,308
    1
    Jan 10, 2002
    NJ
    What do i need to do to enable streaming? I have an elite activated Wednesday and a plain premiere activated on Thursday. Both updated to 20.2 the same night activated yet I dont have any option to stream- just transfer...
     
  9. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    23,112
    1,087
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    Do you mean 802.11g?
    802.11b is only 11Mb/s
     
  10. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

    11,650
    784
    Aug 2, 2003
    This is wrong. B (theoretical max: 11 Mbps) is nowhere near adequate for an HD stream (up to 19.2 Mbps). G (theoretical 54 Mbps, realistically half that) is just barely good enough, if you have a decent setup, which a lot of people don't (too much interference, not enough coverage).

    It's possible you could recompress an HD stream to fit on B, but the TiVo isn't going to do that.
     
  11. zalusky

    zalusky Well-Known Member TCF Club

    8,340
    1,100
    Apr 5, 2002
    Cupertino, CA

    Try connecting them both to Tivo and then possibly a reboot.
    If you don't see anything yet they still maybe throttling the rollout.
     
  12. wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    Sorry, but I respectfully disagree VERY strongly. There is a lot of wives tales and bad math out there concerning speeds. The real story is that for the most part, many homes have less than 802.11b speeds for the internet connection, so frankly, the weakest slowest link in terms of both latency and overall bandwidth is not Wifi. It's the connection. Most HD streams that I've measured of less than 11mb in actual consumption, but I will admit that perhaps that's not indicative of everything. I'm also basing this on MPEG4 and not on MPEG2. My understanding was that we were dealing with MPEG4 here, correct?

    Truth is that it's kind of academic anyway, as most everything has progressed significantly beyond 802.11b and people are generally running a (rarely), n, or g.

    The real answer here is that IF you are on an a, n, or g Wifi network, have strong signal strength and no external interference, even though you're duplex it is almost certain that your Wifi connection is not the choke point in your connection to the outside world. It certainly has more opportunities for interference or degraded performance than CAT5/5E/5 and frankly I used wired 100/1000 connections, but that's a different discussion altogether.

    One other correction. It's also not true that for example, an .11a or g connection can max at 54, and is typically half that. The reality is that the theoretical performance is somewhere maxed out at 72, though I've sure never seen it, and effective performance can be anywhere from less than 15% and well above that.
     
  13. StringFellow

    StringFellow New Member

    57
    0
    Apr 17, 2005
    Just another reason to go Ethernet, MoCA or POE. There are way too many issues that could effect wireless connections and associated bandwidth limitations.

    I had 2 TivoHDs in the past (one hardwired and one wireless) and the transfer feature between the Tivo units never worked. Changed the one wireless to wired and transfers worked fine. Now I have 2 TP units and the MRS works perfectly over Ethernet.

    I recently picked up a Roku box and spent the extra $20 or so to get the one with the included ethernet jack. When I eventually add a TV to my sons room, I will be using MoCA.

    If I could remove wireless from my entire home, I would. I hate it! :mad:
     
  14. wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    One thing you guys should scan on this board. There are a number of people here, on this forum, who reported FASTER transfers and performance via Wifi than they did with wired ethernet. Makes no sense, I know. But I recall reading it just last week as transfer speeds were being discussed, along with the ability to start watching immediately without buffering. There was no technical data such as measured bitrates, connection speeds, etc that I recall. Might be interesting for you guys to look at.

    BTW, Stringfellow - I can't imagine life without wireless. If you're having issues, you've got a design/implementation issue. My entire home is both wired and wireless, including a 24 port managed switch and multiple CAT5E connections to most rooms (yup, I'm a geek). Anyway, pretty much the only things I have that are NOT connected via wireless are my 3 Tivos and 2 of my print servers. I've been running wireless since 1999, at that time using Cabletron Roamabout 802.11B systems as a very early consumer adopter. I LOVE Wifi. The world seems to agree with me.

    Again, sounds as though you've got some design or implementation issues. But as I said before, I also have wired that I use and do prefer for the Tivos - only because I want to reduce every possible variable as I seem to experience so many quality issues with Tivo to begin with.
     
  15. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

    11,650
    784
    Aug 2, 2003
    We're talking about TiVo-to-TiVo streaming within a LAN here, so the Internet speed is irrelevant.

    No, not correct. The TiVo records digital video exactly as delivered OTA or via the cable company, without reencoding it. So far, that's almost 100% MPEG-2. I think there are a few systems in initial MPEG-4 trials, and the TiVo may be ready for it, but it's not widely available. The vast majority of MPEG-4 on a TiVo is from Internet sources, and the vast majority of what's on TiVos is MPEG-2.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11g

    Please, quit while you're behind.
     
  16. StringFellow

    StringFellow New Member

    57
    0
    Apr 17, 2005
    When I had my TiVoHD setup with wireless it was the older Wireless G adapter. Signal strength was usually in the mid 60s. Transfers would either timeout or never complete. Connections to TiVo service never had an issue though.

    For me the convience of plugging in a cable and knowing it will work out weighs wireless. Adding distance, walls, and floors just complicates wireless to much. Also the brand of wirelss equipment (at least for me) makes a difference too.

    Wireless has its place, but for me, the fewer wireless clients in the house the better. :)
     
  17. compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

    1,914
    346
    Oct 6, 2011
    Also should add, i had not issues transferring shows prior to MRS with Wireless G also. Upgraded to N just prior to MRS was enabled
     
  18. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

    12,125
    794
    Jan 23, 2006
    Mission...
    Most wireless connections have too many errors/dropped frames. Just log into your router and check the statistics which typically include error counts. If you are getting errors then that is not very well suited for high bandwidth streaming with little to no buffering. Back in my ReplayTV days (they supported streaming from day 1) 802.11b was not adequate even for SD streaming and 802.11g was barely adequate and only because ReplayTV buffered a good 5 seconds or so. Looks to me like TiVo implementation has almost no buffering since if you pull the network plug while streaming it stops almost right away from my testing. Wired is the way to go if you want proper MRS functionality. I'm using MoCA and use MRS every day now and it's been flawless for me.

    Also, I have 802.11n on laptop with 100% signal strength and connection speed listed above 100Mbps (laptop a few feet router with 802.11n and no obstructions) but TTG downloads from Premieres to the laptop are still slower than wired ethernet for me which in "theory" should not be the case. If I want to maximize download speeds I turn off wireless and connect laptop ethernet to my router.
     
  19. jmpage2

    jmpage2 Active Member

    1,977
    4
    Jan 20, 2004
    Wive's tales and superstition? While wi-fi performance, with a very good network and no potential sources of interference (cordless phones, neighbor wifi systems, metal obstructions in the home, etc, etc, etc) can squeeze out just enough performance to transfer HD, it is in no way shape or form anywhere near as reliable as any kind of wired network would be.

    Seriously, suggesting otherwise makes you look foolish.

    Even a very good, enterprise grade wireless system will have collisions and dropped packets on a far larger scale than you will ever see in a wired network.

    Additionally, even a near "perfect" wireless-N network has barely enough real world performance to stream blu-ray HD, generally speaking it fails miserably at this.
     
  20. wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    For the naysayers here......

    First of all, sorry, I was mistakenly not just focusing on Tivo to Tivo inhouse MRS. In THAT particular scenario (and only that scenario) the external internet connection is not party to the equation. That being said, the fact that users can -and do - stream HD content through that same less than wifi performance internet connection with no QoS speaks to the reality that HD content can, and is, streamed via wifi.

    Secondly, as I've already said, I ALSO prefer the comfort and higher reliability and performance of wired connections. I think I was pretty darned clear that my Tivos are all hardwired.

    Third, I never EVER said that wifi was as reliable as standard CAT5E or CAT6. Please show me exactly where that idea came across, as it does not exist. Refer to previous comment for the hard of reading.

    I also need no primer from Wikipedia as to wired and wireless. I am extremely experienced with enterprise networking on a global scale. If you read through my mention of using Cabletron Roamabout back in '99, you should have asked yourself how I got that technology. No bragging, just making a statement.

    Wifi will clearly have more issues resulting from a multitude of factors, such as the fact that it's half duplex to start with, variation in channel strength, interference from microwave ovens, cordless phones, etc. I was pretty clear in qualifying my answer to say if you DON'T have those issues, then it works quite well. I will certainly admit that the transport had better be buffered, as if it is not then honestly I think we'll likely see problems from time to time even with wired (go back to the internet connection for beyond just Tivo to Tivo streams). Blu-ray quality is an entirely different discussion as far as I'm concerned.
     

Share This Page