Tivo OTA Network DVR submitted to FCC

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by BigJimOutlaw, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. Sep 6, 2016 #1 of 232

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    New Tivo files have been released by the FCC today.

    Tivo has submitted a product called the Mantis. Unknown for sure if this is a codename or not.

    It sounds like a semi-combination of Aereo and the Stream?

    "The TiVO Inc. model TCD84A000 (Mantis) is a network DVR that is designed to receive OTA broadcast video and transcodes and send it out as a network stream either wired or wireless."

    Wireless is up to 802.11ac speed.

    Unit is 5.5 x 5.5 x 1.5 inches. (roughly Mini sized)

    There is no video-out.

    Looking through the pages, there aren't any details about things like internal storage or whether you "bring your own storage" like other boxes. So we can only speculate if it's internal, external, or (theoretically but not likely) cloud-based.


    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  2. Sep 6, 2016 #2 of 232

    tarheelblue32 Well-Known Member

    Jan 12, 2014
    Raleigh, NC
    It looks like TiVo's version of a Tablo to me. There is a USB port, so I assume that is where you plug in a hard drive for storage. So they are basically going head-to-head against the Channel Master DVR+ with their Roamio OTA and then head-to-head against Tablo with this thing. Maybe next they will license a version of their software to individual users to compete against Windows Media Center and the SiliconDust DVR.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  3. Sep 6, 2016 #3 of 232

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

    Jul 24, 2001
    Milwaukee, WI
    Actually, it sounds -- and looks -- a lot like Simple.TV 2.
  4. Sep 6, 2016 #4 of 232

    windracer joined the 10k club

    Jan 3, 2003
    St. Pete, FL
    The diagram makes it look like a larger version of the TiVo Stream.
    JBDragon likes this.
  5. Sep 6, 2016 #5 of 232

    keenanSR Well-Known Member

    Oct 12, 2004
    Santa Rosa CA
    It certainly does.
  6. Sep 6, 2016 #6 of 232
    Aero 1

    Aero 1 Member

    Aug 8, 2007
    This means there will be Roku, Apple TV etc apps in order for this to display video. These apps better also make use of the TiVo stream.
  7. Sep 6, 2016 #7 of 232

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sounds like the "won't directly compete with streamers" product Ira wants us to test around CES time.
  8. Sep 7, 2016 #8 of 232

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    Apr 17, 2000
    Interesting. A headless TiVo. Could be cool for a CableCARD product too. Would certainly solve the app issue if you could just use a Roku or AppleTV to watch your TiVo. Especially if they could tie it into OnePass like how they do it on the iOS app.
  9. Sep 7, 2016 #9 of 232

    dr_mal It's CWS time

    Mar 21, 2001
    Abingdon, VA
    I have a Roamio Plus (cable-only). I wouldn't mind getting something like this to add OTA capabilities, if that's a possible use case for this device.
  10. Sep 7, 2016 #10 of 232

    dadrepus Active Member

    Jan 4, 2012
    So, I guess this will put a dent in the Silicone Dust products as well? We will now be able to watch live TV as well as recorded tv on any connected device using the wonderful Tivo UI?
  11. Sep 7, 2016 #11 of 232

    unitron Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    No video output ought to simplify antenna aiming and troubleshooting.

    By making it moot.
  12. Sep 7, 2016 #12 of 232

    TrackZ Member

    Jan 5, 2004
    This is awesome but there must be a cablecard version. If it works well I would switch to this in a heartbeat from my Bolt if the app support is there giving me a choice of using a fire tv, roku, Xbox, etc.

    Imagine a Windows 10 universal app running on PC and Xbox.
  13. Sep 7, 2016 #13 of 232

    Philmatic Member

    Sep 17, 2003
    Give me one with a CC slot and a 4TB 2.5" drive and I'll be thrilled. I wouldn't mind shoving this in my wiring closet and using Minis and Apps for the rest of my TVs.
  14. Sep 7, 2016 #14 of 232

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    May 2, 2015
    As speculated above, this must be the thing that Ira was talking about in response to my question about a new kind of upcoming product which he says will be unveiled at CES next Jan. This is a good move for TiVo. I envisioned them at some point in the future putting out TiVo-branded OTA network tuners and TiVo apps (for live TV/DVR functionality) available for various popular streaming boxes (Roku, Fire TV, Apple TV, Android TV) plus mobile devices. I just didn't imagine that they'd get there this quickly. This will be a direct competitor against Tablo, Simple.TV and Silicon Dust's HDHomeRun DVR.

    TiVo is known as a DVR company. They've tried to be a streaming platform too but they'll always be a second-class competitor there. That's less important for cable TV subscribers, who see streaming as a side dish while their big cable package is the entree, but for cord-cutters, streaming is probably more important than OTA TV. Better to leave streaming to the established victors and concentrate on what TiVo can do well: live TV with trick play + DVR.

    I'm doubtful we'll see a CableCARD version of the Mantis. As I've said elsewhere, I expect that the TiVo Bolt+ to be unveiled next week will be the last CableCARD product that TiVo ever releases. CableCARD is dying.

    Any guesses on what pricing will look like for the TiVo Mantis? Any thoughts on whether the Roamio OTA (the only series 5 product still selling) will be discontinued next year when this rolls out? I'm guessing it will...
  15. Sep 7, 2016 #15 of 232

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    I would not say the Roamio OTA is the only Roamio still be sold given that the Roamio Pro is still the premium cable DVR being sold on TiVo's web site.

    But I agree they need to put the Roamios out to pasture. It has been 3 years, they were very good DVRs but time to move on. The Bolt + should be a replacement for the Roamio Pro, and either this network attached OTA device or a Bolt OTA should become the base OTA model.

    My guess on pricing depends on if the unit contains a hard drive or not. If they include one I am guessing something in the $400 zone with lifetime - which puts it in the same price range as Tablo. Unfortunately because streaming devices, android, & iOS can not handle MPEG 2 it will still need a chip capable of converting MPEG 2 to h.264 so it will actually have to be more advanced than a Roamio OTA.

    It will be interesting to see what platforms TiVo makes this comparable with.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  16. Sep 7, 2016 #16 of 232

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    May 2, 2015
    Ah, forgot the Roamio Pro is still (sorta) featured on the TiVo site. I imagine that it will be permanently moved to the Outlet section after the Bolt+ replaces it next week.

    I know some streamers, including Roku, cannot handle MPEG2 but I think others can. I believe the 4th gen Apple TV can, as the Channels app (live + trick play TV with DVR features in beta) for that box can work with the Silicon Dust Connect OTA tuner, which streams the original MPEG2 feed from the antenna. Also, any box running Android TV 6.0 (the version that came out last fall) has support for MPEG2.

    But, yes, the TiVo Mantis will have to be capable of transcoding since a lot of devices will require it. Hopefully it gives users control over whether/how content is transcoded for various devices (e.g. no transcoding for the Nvidia Shield TV in my house but transcoding down to low-bandwidth h.264 for my iPhone when away from the home network).

    Also hoping TiVo doesn't include a hard drive in the Mantis in order to keep costs down and allow for easy storage upgradeability/swap-out. It should work with any USB drive but maybe they could have a short list of recommended USB 3.0 drives that they've vetted.

    If there's only to be one version, I'm also hoping they keep costs down by going with fewer tuners, 2 or 3 rather than 4. (Tablo offers 2-tuner and 4-tuner models while Simple.TV has 1- and 2-tuner models.) Two OTA tuners would be plenty for me.
  17. Sep 7, 2016 #17 of 232

    curiousgeorge Member

    Nov 28, 2002
    Especially since TiVo killed the ability to transfer files from our Premiere to Roamio. We were using an old Premiere to get OTA stuff, then transferring that to our Roamios. That was killed this year. Boo TiVo.
  18. Sep 7, 2016 #18 of 232

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    Just curious. What happened? I transfer from Roamio to/from Premiere all the time.
  19. Sep 7, 2016 #19 of 232
    Aero 1

    Aero 1 Member

    Aug 8, 2007
    Huh? I transfer from premiere to roamio all the time.
  20. Sep 7, 2016 #20 of 232

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Given Tivo's mind for simplicity, I have to think there will be internal storage. Their new love of 2.5" drives makes that easier.

    But it would also be kinda cool if they could use a Tivo DVR on the network for storage (if one exists). An interesting merger of Cable+OTA on a single box.

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