TiVo on Android TV?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by davezatz, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. Jul 29, 2019 #61 of 105
    CloudAtlas

    CloudAtlas Bryan

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    TiVO Mini is TiVo’s client in their Whole Home DVR solution. The TiVO DVR (Bolt, Roamio, Premiere) is the server. Not having working clients makes a Android based TiVO DVR a non-starter. Of course for many reasons it is almost certain the TiVO Edge box will ship in September running Hydra 21.9.1.*.

    As a longtime NY Jets fan I’ve learned to not get your hopes up as you will only be greatly disappointed. The TiVO Edge (and TiVO Bolt) will someday run TiVo’s proprietary version of Android TV just not this year. TiVo has finally stabilized the Mira/Hydra code base so baby steps. I’m more curious about when TiVO will release the Series 7 Mini equivalent of the Edge.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  2. Jul 30, 2019 #62 of 105
    CloudAtlas

    CloudAtlas Bryan

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    Google has world class developers who aren’t going to add artificial limitations especially with CableCard supporting 6 tuners. That being said TiVO will release a proprietary version of Android TV so they are not limited at all. If Android TV doesn’t support CableCard TiVO will just use its own device drivers. If Android TV doesn’t support XYZ TiVO will just write the code for it. The source code to Android TV is open source remember.

    C849AEC6-0459-4E9E-B9CB-0DC7AF298921.png
    Customizing the Reference TV App  |  Android Open Source Project

    Live TV is a reference TV app designed for Android television devices. However, device manufacturers may want to add more product-specific functions, which are not covered by the default implementation of Live TV, such as picture adjustment, game mode, or 3D mode. To support these device-specific functions or options, Live TV supports these customizations:
    • Enabling time-shifting mode, which allows users to pause, fast forward, and rewind. Configuring time-shifting mode to use external storage instead of internal storage.
    • Adding options to the TV options row.
    • Adding a custom row and adding options in it.
     
  3. Jul 30, 2019 #63 of 105
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I think the apps for Roku, AppleTV, FireTV and.... AndroidTV ...are ultimately intended to replace the Mini.
     
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  4. Jul 30, 2019 #64 of 105
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Just to be clear TiVo running on AndroidTV is already a thing. Something they offer to MSOs since last December. So it's not a big stretch for this to transition to a retail product 9 months later. This may not be as pie in the sky as the Jets winning a Super Bowl. ;)
     
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  5. Jul 30, 2019 #65 of 105
    compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

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    Yeh but MSO’s are going to need a client So there will most likely be something that could translate to retail
     
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  6. Jul 30, 2019 #66 of 105
    fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    These are all IPTV devices, no? Or are there some that do QAM recording? I don't know how easy it is to port the QAM recording and Cablecard stuff to Android.

     
  7. Jul 30, 2019 #67 of 105
    Eldragun

    Eldragun Member

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    Does anyone know what Version of Android TV its running? 8.0 or 9.0?
     
  8. Jul 30, 2019 #68 of 105
    lucidrenegade

    lucidrenegade Member

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    I'd just be happy to see an app for Android TV that uses mind/rpc. No transcoding or 720p limitations. That's the only thing missing from my single device for everything dream using an Nvidia Shield TV.
     
  9. Jul 30, 2019 #69 of 105
    CloudAtlas

    CloudAtlas Bryan

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    Both TiVO OS and Android are Linux OS based so no port is necessary. Low-level hardware/device driver stuff is all written in C or C++. What makes Android special is it was designed from day one (2003) to run on under powered cpu-wise low memory camera and mobile devices. For a development environment they choose Java the “Write once, run everywhere platform. Unlike C or C++, Java code can run on any device supporting a Java VM (Virtual Machine.). You no longer needed to “port” code!

    To achieve this Android Inc, did he impossible of making Java perform on hardware other than expensive high powered servers (where Java is king.). Android wrote their own JVM for these under powered low memory devices and succeeded in achieving amazing performance. You no longer had to write code in C or C++ for each specific device then port to another device. They achieved what Sun Microsystems, inventors of Java, couldn’t do and that caught the attention of Google who purchased Android.

    Apple has done the same thing with iOS. Instead of Linux (UNIX) iOS is based on Mac OS X (UNIX) and utilizes the all new Swift programming language/runtime instead of Java.
     
  10. Jul 30, 2019 #70 of 105
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    The problem with this is that most devices don’t license the MPEG-2 codec, so historically they couldn’t use it. That being said the patent expired last year so now they could technically use it for free. A lot of these devices also don’t support interlaced video so when apps use it, like Kodi and VLC, they're deinterlacing in software which is not always predictable.
     
  11. Jul 30, 2019 #71 of 105
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Swift actually compiles to native code like C++, it's not a VM language like Java or C#.
     
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  12. Jul 30, 2019 #72 of 105
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Yes. The current devices are designed for IPTV or cloud based DVR functionality. But I'm thinking that the last 10 months they've been working on QAM and ATSC integration.

    But I could be wrong. Although I wonder what the point of coming out with yet another iteration of their existing DVR would be. The VOX platform is plenty fast enough for everyone so why would anyone bother upgrading if it was just a slightly faster version of the same thing?
     
  13. Jul 30, 2019 #73 of 105
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

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    At this point I don't know how they could release a box that isn't Android-based, if they want their product spin-off company to have any chance. A competent app platform is a basic cost of entry. I started out with the Edge news being skeptical, "because Tivo is Tivo", but now I just think they'd be completely crazy to stick with linux. I don't want to imagine them being that... well, stupid.

    As long as compatibility could be kept, I don't think upgrading Bolts and 4K Minis is entirely out of the question, either. Wouldn't be as performant as the Android boxes in this thread, but not horrible. Knowing they want to monetize Hydra with VOD and apps, one would think that should involve more people than just a few tiny IPTV distributions.

    I wanna hope. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  14. Jul 30, 2019 #74 of 105
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I'm with you. I don’t think there is any point in releasing another, slightly faster, Bolt at this point. The only reason to release a new unit at all would be either...

    1) A major platform shift to AndroidTV

    2) A headless unit that used an app on other streaming platforms as it's main UI

    Coming out with just another TiVo would be pointless and would likely flop.
     
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  15. Jul 30, 2019 #75 of 105
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

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    We can probably rule out #2 since there's an HDMI port and remote.

    A potential #3 would be Arris streamlining production. Bolt motherboards still require their own unique fabrication. But that's a big 'ol ho-hum for everybody.
     
  16. Jul 30, 2019 #76 of 105
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Yeah if it's #3 then it's going to flop as a retail product. What reason would anyone with a Bolt upgrade to a new box that's nothing but a slightly faster chip?
     
  17. Jul 30, 2019 #77 of 105
    fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    I mean, I hope that you guys are right, but it took a decade to get HD menus, so I'm not optimistic. They're also then supporting a third platform (classic, Hydra, Android).
     
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  18. Jul 30, 2019 #78 of 105
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    They're not really "supporting" classic any more. It's pretty much frozen and I don't expect any more updates.

    Hydra is based on a modular system that was intended to be capable of being ported to other platforms. The whole point of the switch was so they could basically recompile the Mini version into apps that ran on 3rd party streaming devices, but it might also work for porting the main part of the TiVo system to AndroidTV. The big question is what do they do with the DVR functionality. They basically have two options...

    1) Port all their current Linux code for their proprietary DVR functionality over to AndoridTV

    2) Adopt the AndroidTVs built in DVR API

    It really depends on how robust the internal API is whether #2 is really a viable option. I've looked at the basic DVR API calls in the docs and they appear to be pretty robust, but TiVo knows better than I do what their system needs to function properly. I also have no idea how much work it would be to port the TiVo DVR functionality over to Android. Android is technically Linux based, so it's possible it might not be that hard, but I know that TiVo's system is heavily reliant of their special filesystem and I'm not sure if that really fits into the AndroidTV system well. But who knows. Android is open source so TiVo could technically do whatever they want with it if they're willing to make custom modifications to the OS.
     
  19. Jul 30, 2019 #79 of 105
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think that's right when it comes to the Next Gen TiVo IPTV Platform. Well, actually, on that platform, the operator would just have one model Android TV box running the TiVo UI. There's not a main box and a mini box -- they're all like the Mini in that they have no tuners and no hard drive. But the apps for Roku, Apple TV, etc. give the customer the option of using their own devices on secondary TVs (maybe even the primary TV) if they prefer.

    I'm skeptical that TiVo aims to stop selling the existing Minis any time soon because they'll continue to be the best way to extend service from TiVo Bolts, Roamios, and Premieres to additional TVs. As for the Edge? We'll see...
     
  20. Jul 30, 2019 #80 of 105
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    You've researched this more than me, and I respect that, but from what I know about Android TV's built in support for DVR controls, as well as apps that hook into those controls, I am doubtful that it's robust/sophisticated enough to meet TiVo's standards. Remember, TiVo is the "original DVR" and their customers expect power-user controls. My gut tells me that they would have to go with option 1 above.
     

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