Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by blobly, Apr 23, 2018.
I am using the latest update of Hydra. It also worked before this last update.
If you mean that a TE4 box can copy programs from anything, I'm missing something.
“Power users” don’t typically drive consumer electronics. Especially when the vendor has all the metrics of how their device is used. When the old “power” options existed, they could tell if they moved into the general population. Some that are held near and dear to some users were deemed to not be the differentiators some assumed. Right or wrong, that’s how it worked.
Nope, not what I am saying. I was told that the only way to transfer programs from an older Tivo(XL4) to a new Bolt with Hydra was to use the Tivo online transfers. That did work. But now I see I can also do it the old way, using "Devices" in the menu. I do not think that was possible before. When I first got the Bolt, the XL4 did not show under devices.
My 3 Tivos( Bolt-Vox, XL4, 2 tuner HD) all play well together, sharing recordings in both directions, over wifi, not using Tivo online.
I get your point. However, there is plenty of evidence where CE companies have used early adopters and/or "power users" as evangelist and a conduit for ideation/new features. Some things might get monetized (if there is evidence that the masses of main stream customers will pay a premium of such features). Some others might be advanced features that power users enjoy using, however, the main stream may not care about, still, deemed worthwhile to keep evangelist/power users engaged. Once upon a time Tivo understood that dynamic - Rovi clearly does not.
It's always a fine line as to what features go into what releases and invariably that means how much time and money will be spent to push those features out and ultimately what the ROI will be once you cross the finish line. This is a natural tension that exists in every single company that produces a product IMO - not just CE.
Now nobody expects that Tivo should spend oodles of time and money porting features over to TE4 if they are difficult to do (for some reason) and will just cost far too much to appease all of us long-time loyal Tivo fans. I for one don't buy that Live Guide and Transfers present that big of an investment in time and resources to port. Conversely, Thumbs up/down and Recommendations probably need to be overhauled to be able to work with other apps (e.g. Netflix) so that may be a bigger money pit to port over (yet, still quite possibly worthwhile if viewed as being part of the core Tivo brand and a unique selling proposition).
I live in this idealistic world where manufacturers incorporate excellence in a product for pride of excellence.
Different dynamic. You are talking about new tech here. The “power” usage in the case of TE3 to TE4 is old tech. It never got adopted by a large community. Early adopters are a different class than power users although they do overlap.
I see. So "power users" that like features in TE3 are no longer relevant because some features aren't in the new TE4 where there are apparently no more "power users" or need for "power users?"
I'm not sure which of us that remain on TE3 ever said Tivo should NOT bother to update TE3. It needed to be updated and ported for no other reason than to refresh the look of it (and a host of other reasons). We will all continue to debate the wisdom of dropping features that us "old" Tivo users covet more than some new Tivo users. I predict the gamble to dis-intermediate themselves of core Tivo differentiators and core "power users" will not pay off. You clearly beg to differ.
One thing is for certain - none of us will know until the next couple of earnings reports come out.
Can the engineering and/or marketing types here help me understand something, as to why TE4 is what it is?
Specifically, as I'm now seeing it and personal to my own TiVo system use and preferences, TE4 has 3 major deficits to TE3: no Live Guide; a multiply-deficient show transfer system (no PC -> TiVo box transfer capability, and no direct (i.e. TiVo Online-less) TiVo box -> TiVo box transfer capability); and no working Suggestions system. TE3 had each of those.
Those capabilities having existed and been in place in TE3, what would be the engineering or marketing, or other, reason that they simply wouldn't have been brought forward into TE4? In the simple paradigm in my mind as a non-engineer, I would have thought that each of those feature "modules" simply could have been migrated over to TE4, just as, for example, the grid Guide was incorporated into TE4. Are things considerably more complex than that, such that it would have consumed considerable time and energy to port each feature over? Or, perhaps, would the additions "bloat" the software to a negative effect, and possibly require more physical storage? Does the dropping of features relate to a simplifying of customer support (fewer features, less to support)?
On a marketing angle, people have commented here that the average TCF'er is part of the minority of TiVo's customer base, with the vast majority being the cablescos, and that the cablecos don't want the Live Guide as an option--but why not (support issues?), and couldn't TiVo simply switch the Live Guide option off for those cablecos?
As to Suggestions, a few people recently have noted that as Netflix and other apps don't use a thumbs system, TiVo might be trying to get away from that paradigm. I understand that, but it still seems that the thumbs provide a valuable source of personal data,* including for where Netflix and the other sources don't have the specific programing. (And this totally ignores the fact that the new Suggestions system simply doesn't work.)
And with regard to transfers, is there some tech. issue or concern, or might it come down to legal liability concerns?
I'm just realistically trying to understand why features that worked and that at least a real amount of consumers used would be dropped from a new software release.
* Perhaps which further has a marketable value as a data commodity.
You are a wise person but I am not sure that it comes down to TiVo-Rovi: wasn't Margret Schmidt a chief architect of TE4, and she was a longtime TiVo'er. Also, wasn't the bulk of TE4 developed under TiVo as vs. Rovi?
I just don't get, why try to fix what's not broke, and then break it in the process, causing more work?
Share and transfer are two different things. The transfer function results in a separate copy of the program on the receiving device. The only way to transfer programs in your scenario is via TiVo Online. (And that function results in damaged files for many of us.)
I think transfer to other devices has copyright legal issues that cause extra programming and legal exposure...
That is not what I’ve said at all. TE3 features have been around for years and are used by a portion of power users. But they haven’t caught on with the general public. How long do you hold onto them hoping the power users will spread the word?
Truly, other than live guide, many couldn’t easily as they are truly power user items.
I also never said they were right or wrong. Just looking at the way they see it.
I’ve seen this with software before. It ages. It gets updated and patched to death and gets to a point where it is very difficult to enhance. Companies will the look at a rewrite, which TE4 was; it wasn’t a mapped porting. If you rewrite, you have a chance to rethink. That’s what they did. So you have different approaches to things like viewing buffers. And since it is a rewrite, not just a graphic remap, you have to choose your items. Yes, you may introduce issues, but with cleaner, modern code you can fix them.
It is a strategic decision almost any longtime software company has to face at some time. Rebuild or keep applying tape and glue. TiVo made that decision before the rovi acquisition.
I had also posted in the Roamio forum which gets far less traffic than the coffee house. Is there a noticeable speed difference between TE3 and TE4? Thanks!
Roamio Plus UI Speed - TE3 vs TE4
I am transferring, not sharing. Not using Tivo online.
You’re going to face much skepticism, as you’d be the only person with the ‘Transfer’ option available within the TE4 UI. (Transfers to the Premiere or HD, both running TE3, aren’t in doubt; just those to a DVR running TE4.)
You’re sure you’re still running TE4 (21.*) on the BOLT?
Yes, I was surprised too. I will post proof when I get a chance.
I have no reason to BS this, It just works.
I took pictures showing the transfers, but I cannot upload them.