TiVo, MOCA, and Comcast XB3 Modem

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by PSU_Sudzi, Oct 24, 2015.

  1. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    Call their support and have them add your modem to a white list they don't flash it any more, I did with mine last week.
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Thanks for this info.

    Has the "whitelisting" of your XB3 proved effective in keeping MoCA consistently available to your TiVo devices?

    Is there some alternate manual process you can now follow to ensure that your XB3 is periodically updated?
     
  3. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    Well, now that you ask....started having internet connection issues and went through a couple of XB3 modems. Couldn't figure out the problem. Comcast sent a tech out and they put an POE filter on my input (I don't have access to the box myself in a condo) and no more internet problems. I have not called them back yet to whitelist my new modem so the MoCA goes off every couple of days and it's on my to do list to calmly hem back again this week.
     
  4. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, a bit confused about the filter placement, they put a MoCA filter what "input", the line coming into your home or what?
    Edit: Also how did you ever discover this "white listing" terminology?
     
  5. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    i am not a tech expert, but I am guessing he put the filter somewhere in the main box in my building and explained to me this would keep the MoCA signal only on the cable running to my unit. As for the whitelist, I did a lot of searching Comcast forums about this issue and found a post with a name and number of a tech at Comcast that did this for someone else and "whitelist" was the word they used.
     
  6. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I don't consider myself a tech expert either but I am pretty certain he put it on the input of the first splitter to enter your home. What puzzles me though is how would a MoCA cable modem be sensitive to MoCA interference, never mind, it just came to me it was the cable companies incoming internet signal that was being interfered with...it wasn't happening within your gateway.
     
  7. jgorran

    jgorran New Member

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    I think I've gotten a handle on the Xfinity X1 DVR System with XB3 Modem/Gateway Moca 2.0 issues with my Roamio Plus and Mini using an Actiontec ECB2500C Moca adapter.

    Why would I have both a Tivo (for 14 years by the way) and have the Xfinity X1 DVR system is that I live in a gated 55 plus community that just arranged a bulk contract agreement for our 1043 homes for the Triple Play using the X 1 System. I could opt out, but I'd still have to pay for it anyway through our community's monthly increased fee. So I have it. In addition to the X1 box itself, they give us one X1 companion box which is just like the Tivo mini, but for the X1. Apparently it communicates with the X1 box via Moca, which is built into the X1 DVR just like in the Tivo Roamio Plus. But this is Moca 2.0 for X1
    and the Tivo Roamio plus and Actiontec adapter is at Moca 1.0 or some designation like that...so there seems to be a compatibility/interference issue which I have experienced. They don't work well together when you try to use the Xfinity companion box (like the Tivo Mini) on the same coax network with a Tivo Roamio and a Tivo mini.

    THAT is why Comcast sends a signal every few days to the XB3 Modem (Mine is an Arris) to turn off the Moca. They don't play well together.

    I too got the name of the Comcast tech who put me on the whitelist so that my Moca would no longer be automatically turned off every three days. Until then, I had the same problem that you all were having in terms of having to reset the modem every couple of days.

    This allowed the Actiontec/Tivo Moca 1.0 to function well. However, at least in my case, when I tried to use the Xfinity companion box, I still had interference which would cause Freezeups on the X1 companion box along with a several second dropping of Moca on my Tivo Roamio Plus and then it would come back on. Unfortunately, this happened as long as the X1 companion box was attached to cable anywhere in my house. When Moca signal was dropped , my Tivo mini would
    also stop functioning in the middle of whatever it was doing (including watching live TV) and have to be reset. What a waste of time.

    So I have now disconnected the X1 companion box and my Tivo mini is working fine along with my Tivo Roamio Plus. While I'm stuck with this X1 companion box that is not being used, it really does not matter because it is just my wife and I and between our Tivo Roamio and a mini, plus an X1 System on a third TV, we certainly are covered.

    So to get your Roamio and minis to work if you have an X1 and an XB3 modem.gateway, you must get Comcast to whitelist your modem so that they do not keep turning off Moca. And of course, forget about the X1 companion box. Obviously these too different Moca standards do not play well together.
     
  8. jgorran

    jgorran New Member

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    I think I've gotten a handle on the Xfinity X1 DVR System with XB3 Modem/Gateway Moca 2.0 issues with my Roamio Plus and Mini using an Actiontec ECB2500C Moca adapter.

    Why would I have both a Tivo (for 14 years by the way) and have the Xfinity X1 DVR system is that I live in a gated 55 plus community that just arranged a bulk contract agreement for our 1043 homes for the Triple Play using the X 1 System. I could opt out, but I'd still have to pay for it anyway through our community's monthly increased fee. So I have it. In addition to the X1 box itself, they give us one X1 companion box which is just like the Tivo mini, but for the X1. Apparently it communicates with the X1 box via Moca, which is built into the X1 DVR just like in the Tivo Roamio Plus. But this is Moca 2.0 for X1
    and the Tivo Roamio plus and Actiontec adapter is at Moca 1.0 or some designation like that...so there seems to be a compatibility/interference issue which I have experienced. They don't work well together when you try to use the Xfinity companion box (like the Tivo Mini) on the same coax network with a Tivo Roamio and a Tivo mini.

    THAT is why Comcast sends a signal every few days to the XB3 Modem (Mine is an Arris) to turn off the Moca. They don't play well together.

    I too got the name of the Comcast tech who put me on the whitelist so that my Moca would no longer be automatically turned off every three days. Until then, I had the same problem that you all were having in terms of having to reset the modem every couple of days.

    This allowed the Actiontec/Tivo Moca 1.0 to function well. However, at least in my case, when I tried to use the Xfinity companion box, I still had interference which would cause Freezeups on the X1 companion box along with a several second dropping of Moca on my Tivo Roamio Plus and then it would come back on. Unfortunately, this happened as long as the X1 companion box was attached to cable anywhere in my house. When Moca signal was dropped , my Tivo mini would
    also stop functioning in the middle of whatever it was doing (including watching live TV) and have to be reset. What a waste of time.

    So I have now disconnected the X1 companion box and my Tivo mini is working fine along with my Tivo Roamio Plus. While I'm stuck with this X1 companion box that is not being used, it really does not matter because it is just my wife and I and between our Tivo Roamio and a mini, plus an X1 System on a third TV, we certainly are covered.

    So to get your Roamio and minis to work if you have an X1 and an XB3 modem.gateway, you must get Comcast to whitelist your modem so that they do not keep turning off Moca. And of course, forget about the X1 companion box. Obviously these too different Moca standards do not play well together.
     
  9. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    jgorran,
    When you were trying to get your Tivos and the xfinity equipment working using MoCA, how did you enable the MoCA on the Roamio, "create a MoCA network" or "connect to a MoCA network"?
     
  10. jgorran

    jgorran New Member

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    Since I already had the Moca network established by using the Actiontec adapter, I can only assume that it was "connect to a Moca network". I do not think there was a choice given between create or connect because I already had established said Moca network. I set up the mini at the same time as the Roamio Plus so I knew that I needed to have a Moca network in place using the Adaptec for the two boxes to talk to each other. I suspect from your question that if I had not already establshed a Moca with the Actiontec adapter and just had the Roamio Plus (which can do a Moca itself in some fashion) it might have asked the question "Do you want the Roamio to establish a Moca".

    The point is that I don't think I ever was given that choice as I set up the Moca FIRST with the Actiontec adapter. That is just how I think I remember things.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2016
  11. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for responding. If you already have the Comcast boxes establishing a MoCA network, what were you using the Actiontec MoCA adapter for? You should have been able to use the "connect to MoCA network" on the Plus and the mini, no other adapter should be needed.
    There is no incompatibility between MoCA 2.0 and the Tivo's MoCA 1.1 standards, so that is the reason for the question as to how you connected to the MoCA network. 2 MoCA devices both set to be the "network controller" will fight each other. I don't know if that is what you were observing as "interference" or not. I am not familiar with the Comcast xfininity system to know for certain but I would not be surprised if the router/gateway or their DVR would act as one. I am trying to under stand this as I have a nephew who is in a similar situation, who I would describe as a "technot, 3rd class" and is kind of useless to get information from. The option to force a MoCA device to become the "network controller" is absent on most MoCA devices, they will simply join each other and one or the other will "act as the network controller", kind of like the way a windows network will reselect a "Master Browser" for keeping track of all the devices on the network, if the machine acting as a "Master Browser" goes off line, one of the other machines will get "elected".
     
  12. jgorran

    jgorran New Member

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    I do not have any "advanced knowledge" regarding Moca. I only know what "I think I know" based upon results I see and information I pickup on forums like this one and the Comcast one. I had read that Comcast designed their system using Moca 2.0 specifically because there were no Moca 2.0 adapters being made for the general public..only for providers like Comcast. According to this theory, Comcast wanted to keep any non-Comcast equipment from functioning or attaching to their Moca 2.0. They considered it proprietary. So under this theory, Moca 2.0 and Moca 1.1 are NOT compatible and that without my Actiontec adapter, I would not have been able to connect to the Xfinity X1 DVR created Moca 2.0 anyway. If you say they are both compatible and that I did not need the Actiontec as I could have simply connected to the Moca 2.0 and both the Roamio and Mini would have functioned properly, that does not agree with what I have seen. If everything is compatible, do you believe the addition of the Actiontec adapter "caused" the problem?

    I really think that my specific situation is really unusual. I mean who would choose to have a six tuner Roamio Plus and mini in addition to having an Xfinity X1 DVR with 5 tuner capability. I like the Roamio Plus much better as a DVR for a host of reasons but I am forced to also have an X1 DVR so I had to make as much of the two systems work together as possible and I think I accomplished that.

    It would just seem that the Actiontec might have been unnecessary under your scenario, but not damaging to the integrity of the Moca. I can assure you that attaching the Xfinity companion box created a "conversation" between it and the X1 DVR that screwed up my Tivo Moca.

    For me, my system is working just fine after almost two months of trying to get it to do so. You may be correct about the two Moca standards being compatible and if THAT is so, then maybe Comcast/Xfinity does "something else" to prevent third parties from using their Moca 2.0.
     
  13. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Again, thank you for your efforts, your situation is "unusual" and that is why I was trying to glean some additional information/details from you to better understand how Comcast uses MoCA on their equipment. Unfortunately, I think I inadvertently may have poorly explained the reason for my inquiries and cast some unfortunate aspersions on your understanding. If so, I apologize, please have a great day and enjoy your Tivo's.
     
  14. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you would have problems like yours with the X1 and MoCA turned on in the XB3.
     
  15. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    I used "connect to MOCA network" to connect my Roamio to the MOCA from my XB3. Also got my XB3 whitelisted by Comcast so they will no longer flash it to disable the MOCA and it will remain on. Victory!
     
  16. jgorran

    jgorran New Member

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    PSU Sudzi,

    I assume, of course, that while you have have the XB3 modem/gateway, you don't have the Xfinity X1 DVR system with an Xfinity companion box? If that is so, then it is useful to know that without using the Xfinity companion box but still having the X1 DVR and the XB3 modem/gateway, I might have been able to have "connected to Moca network" without having to have used the Actiontec Moca adapter. Live and learn. But as I have admitted, who would ever "need" to have an X1 DVR and a Tivo Roamio plus except perhaps someone in my unusual situation.
     
  17. PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    Hi, your question is confusing as the X1 DVR creates the MOCA network, not the companion box. The MOCA from the X1 DVR is what interferes with the MOCA from the XB3 router and why Comcast flashes the router to deactivate it. And yes, I gave back my X1 DVR as I only use my Roamio and Mini.
     
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I've been assuming from jgorran's problem description -- that is, everything works OK until he adds the Xi3 companion box to the mix -- that the X1 DVR's MoCA feature lies dormant until needed, much like it does on a MoCA-capable TiVo DVR -- as evidenced by the modem failures described in this past forum post.

    Since you can't have two MoCA networks on the same coax lines, I would think that you'd need to segment your X1/Xi3 boxes and your TiVo MoCA devices on your coax lines, using strategically-placed MoCA filters and a couple splittters to isolate the two MoCA networks from each other.

    Whether it's workable, in reality, depends on the coax runs in the home and where the devices are located. (e.g. Having a single coax run with both an X1 device and a TiVo in the same room would be problematic, assuming the TiVo required a MoCA connection.)
     
  19. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Paradise...
    Actually I believe you can, if you use different frequency bands/channels for the MoCA. You should be able to run one MoCA system using Channel 15 and say another using Channel 17. Just make sure each segment is on the proper channel that you want for each device/node/LAN segment.

    EDIT:

    Actually I was curious so I researched some and I was sort of right. You can't do it in the same band, which for cable TV is usually Band "D", but you can have multiple networks on the same coax if you use different Bands, Like A, B, C, D or E (used for DirecTV, known as DeCA).

    See this document, page 8-9:

     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I tried to keep it simple since we're talking strictly about MoCA for the average TiVo user, which means we're just dealing with one MoCA "band" of frequencies, and that's where the "one per" limit applies, IIRC, 1 MoCA network per band (though my current search fu is failing me to find the exact source for this belief). And I'm also assuming that Comcast's X1 would be trying to create a 2nd MoCA network on the same MoCA band used by TiVo, as I believe the band is intended for cable TV solutions.
     

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