tivo mini moca network

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by hpeter, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. Oct 1, 2020 #1 of 14
    hpeter

    hpeter New Member

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    Hi,
    I have XL4 and mini 9200. I use moca for XL4 network and it is running fine. But, the mini moca network is down. Spectrum is my cable provider. I have Actiontech ECB2500 moca adapters. My setup:

    Outside > POE > Amplifier1 (VRA500B) > splitter > moca adapter > xl4 > tv1(works)
    > Amplifier 2 (VRA500B) >modern > router > moca adapter
    > Tuning adapter > xl4
    > moca adapter > tivo mini > tv2 (no good)
    > moca adapter > tivo mini > tv3 (no good)

    I had reset the mini and it did not help. I had similar setup in the past without the Amplifier 2 (Spectrum tech said better to have it). Any thoughts on how to get mini working? Thanks
    Peter
     
  2. Oct 1, 2020 #2 of 14
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I'm not certain that I understand your setup, as described, so please bear with me.

    Sidebar: The VRA500B is a standard cable amplifier (not one designed to support MoCA), with 4 amplified output ports (unity gain), and a single passive output port for VOIP (-4dB). Depending on the number of ports required, the preferred Antronix amp for a single drop amplifier setup supporting MoCA would be either the MVRA502B or MVRA902B model.​

    It sounds like you have 2 amplifiers, not making a MoCA setup impossible but it certainly won't help. Some questions...
    • Did you add an amplifier recently?
    • Are these amplifiers located near each other or at different locations in the residence?
    • Do all the coax runs emanate from a single central location, or do you have a few different junction points?
    Also...
    • How many XL4 DVRs do you have? (And are these 4-tuner Premiere models?)
    • Do you have a Tuning Adapter installed at each DVR location?
    • Is the(an) XL4 located at the modem/router location?
    If possible, can you be more specific in how the coax runs and devices are connected, including specifying the splitter characteristics (2-way, 3-way, etc) and to which amplifier output the various coax runs connect; as well as the critical network/Ethernet gear and associated connections? A diagram, however rough (even hand-drawn) usually works best.

    In the meantime, the Mini connections are especially confusing, as the description above:
    > moca adapter > tivo mini > tv2 (no good)
    > moca adapter > tivo mini > tv3 (no good)
    ... would seem to indicate that the Minis are connected via coax to a MoCA adapter at each location, but with the Minis being configured as MoCA clients. This setup would be problematic since the "TV/STB Out" pass-through port of MoCA adapters severely attenuates MoCA signals, preventing any MoCA communication through the port. In such a setup, the Mini would need to be connected via Ethernet to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port (directly or via a network switch) and configured for an Ethernet connection.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
  3. Oct 1, 2020 #3 of 14
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    p.s. I'd also be curious to know why all the extra MoCA adapters are being used when all the listed TiVo gear (XL4, Minis) have built-in MoCA functionality. (There are plenty of good reasons to do so, but I want to confirm a reason rather than simply not realizing the TiVo gear was all MoCA-ready.)
     
  4. Oct 2, 2020 #4 of 14
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    If the similar setup was what you cited in another thread...
    ... the key/critical difference* is that it was a single drop-amp setup, even if not the preferred “designed for MoCA” MVRA902B model (or MVRA502B if fewer outputs are needed).


    edit: * ... aside from the previously mentioned possible Mini/MoCA adapter connection issues.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  5. Oct 2, 2020 #5 of 14
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Basically, assuming an amp that doesn't block MoCA, why wouldn't you simply rig it as pictured below to get your TiVo boxes networked?


    upload_2020-10-2_14-52-3.png
     
  6. Oct 4, 2020 #6 of 14
    hpeter

    hpeter New Member

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    Hi, I have been working with Spectrum tech the past few days on this. I can say all 4 that came to my house have little clue on this. Their supervisor suggests i get a new system (from them of course).
    I finally redo all the connections after seeing your suggestions. And , MAGIC ... Tivo mini is working. THANKS
     
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  7. Oct 4, 2020 #7 of 14
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Good to hear.

    You might want to check the MoCA stats reported by your Mini’s, to check the health/efficiency of your MoCA network. (Under Network Status)
     
  8. Oct 4, 2020 #8 of 14
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    p.s. Now, if you wanted to leverage your coax to extend wired networking for devices other than your TiVo boxes (e.g. PCs, gaming consoles, Ethernet-capable streamers, wireless access points or mesh satellites), that could be accomplished with a few tweaks (and add’l MoCA adapters) ... though it would already be an easy add-on at the XL4 location, since you could leverage the XL4’s built-in MoCA bridging and its otherwise-unused Ethernet port. See >this post< for more info on extending wired access via a MoCA client TiVo DVR.
     
  9. Oct 4, 2020 #9 of 14
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Of course, it isn’t magic; which makes cable techs’ inability to properly set it up mind-numbing. (And that cascaded amplifier was a real classic.)
     
  10. hpeter

    hpeter New Member

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    Krkaufman,
    Thanks for the follow up. I am afraid that I need your help again with regards to MoCA health/efficiency. I have upload my setup (pdf) and screen shots from XL4 (XL4a, b and c) as well as Mini (minia, b, c and d). Can you take a look and tell me what else should I do? Thanks for your helps.
    Peter
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I'll take a look.

    Quick thought Re: the diagram...
    tivo setup.png

    The pictured amplifier isn't designed for MoCA; Antronix's MVRA902B is their equivalent "designed for MoCA" amp (with improved MoCA communication between output ports, including the passive VOIP port, and includes a built-in MoCA filter). And you might consider just the MVRA502B if you don't have more than 4 coax runs to support. (more on the MVRA amps >here<)

    In the meantime, with your current amplifier, you might consider moving your main coax run to the modem/XL4 location to Output 1 (from Output 5), and shift the other 2 runs to Outputs 2 & 3. I've seen install instructions for non-MoCA amplifiers (though perhaps not your model) indicating that the lower ports provide better MoCA connectivity. edit: NOTE: Use ports 2-4, if Output 1 is being used for remote powering the amp.

    edit: p.s. Interesting note from that other thread, for future reference...
     

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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I'm curious how this other poster achieved such stellar MoCA stats using the same supposedly NOT "designed for MoCA" amp:
     
  13. skid71

    skid71 Member

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    Where are these Mini MoCA pages found? I've been digging through menus all morning and cannot find them.
    Thank you
     
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The Network Status option, under Network Troubleshooting. And use your Channel Down/Up remote button to page through the multiple pages.

    See this TiVo how-to: TiVo MoCA Troubleshooting: PHY Rates

    Screenshots capture everything, but other useful info beyond PHY rates include MoCA channel, # of nodes and TX & RX power estimates. Also, PHY rates for MoCA 1.1 should, ideally, be in the mid-200s. TX power estimate can vary from -30 to +3 (lower the better), with PHY rates beginning to suffer at max TX signal amplification of +3.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
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