TiVo may ditch Android TV going forward as Google copies the Stream 4K’s biggest selling point

Discussion in 'TiVo Stream 4K' started by Vm19, May 7, 2021.

  1. May 7, 2021 #1 of 163
    Vm19

    Vm19 New Member

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    TiVo Android TV future in jeopardy by Google's hand - 9to5Google

    They should at least fix the bugs before ditching the platform, they have been radio silent for months...

    As people have said here, there is no reason to get this device over the Chromecast with Google TV. I wonder how long they're going to support the device. I hope they communicate their plans soon.
     
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  2. May 8, 2021 #2 of 163
    dbpaddler

    dbpaddler Well-Known Member

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    Meh. Feel like it's nonsense. I always got the impression the TS4k was more so a consumer test device for their Android based Cable OS and TS4k owners are Guinea pigs. At least that's what the beta makes it feel like.

    Now if they were just throwing up their hands because they keep breaking simple things that should just work and then take forever to acknowledge it, let alone fix it. That I could see.

    But their future is Android. Not sure why these non journalist bloggers don't actually do their homework and paint the complete picture before jumping to speculative conclusions.

    And does Google really do it better? Last I checked, the Stream 4k doesn't include paid placement content like that of hbo max on Google's home screen. And Google has much more recommended content from providers I'm not subscribed to. I also find the stream's rows of content more worthwhile than Google's. But the blogger fails to mention any of that.

    I don't really use stream, and my ccgtv collects dust. I'm just not a aggregated content fan. I prefer the Android TV home screen over both of those options for its app based rows I can arrange to my liking.

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    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  3. May 8, 2021 #3 of 163
    slick1ru2

    slick1ru2 The Streaminator

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    Actually the TiVo device is better.




     
  4. May 8, 2021 #4 of 163
    Old Roamio 0

    Old Roamio 0 Member

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    Yes. I like the Tivo better than the google one too. That's actually the problem in my house. But, on the other hand: We in my family are aging, and can't can't seem to give up on TIVO. Anything they do we mostly like just automatically. So I hope they stay around a long long time on Android and those other things the dvrs - mostly as is.
     
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  5. May 8, 2021 #5 of 163
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Some who've tried both devices like the TiVo Stream app's UI better for content aggregation and management, others prefer the Google TV UI on the new Chromecast (and soon to be on various smart TVs and probably other boxes and dongles). But it's hard for little TiVo to do battle with a giant like Google when they're playing on Google's home turf. TiVo's UI has to live in its own Stream app but, as long as it's on Android TV, Google gets to control the home screen. That's not ideal for TiVo.

    And the situation will get worse in the future because Google is gradually replacing the Android TV home screen launcher with the fuller-featured Google TV experience, which is more similar to the TiVo Stream app. I think Google said that all Android TV devices launching after some point in 2022 will be required to use Google TV. As TiVo/Xperi's CEO pointed out yesterday, the Google TV home screen already does basically the same thing as what the TiVo Stream app aims to do. Having two UIs on the same device doing the same sort of cross-app search/aggregation/recommendations is a weird situation. And when Google's UI is baked into the home screen and backed by the OS developer, who also happens to be the biggest tech company in the world, well, that puts TiVo's UI, siloed away in its own separate app, at a distinct disadvantage.

    So TiVo's plan going forward is to pivot from their own streaming device to having their UI built into smart TVs. And apparently ditch Android TV/Google TV too, allowing TiVo to own the home screen UI. But that would mean having to build their own app store. Because I really don't think they'll be able to access the Google Play app store if they're not using Google TV.

    So, as Dave Zatz speculates, it seems likely that TiVo's smart TV platform will do what Amazon did with their Fire TV platform: build the OS on open-source Android and design their own custom UI home screen and app store. If they're smart, they'll do things in a way that lets app developers just stick their Android-based Fire TV apps into the TiVo app store and ensure they run without any significant tweaks. In the past, TiVo has never had the heft to get many app providers to support a dedicated TiVo app store/platform. (Look at how sad the app experience on traditional TiVo DVRs has been.) But with the backing of a major smart TV manufacturer, they should have enough sway.

    Which TV manufacturer might adopt the forthcoming TiVo Stream OS and app store? Samsung and LG are doing very well with their own smart OSes, so not them. Sony and Hisense (and some TCL models) use Google TV/Android TV. TCL is well-known for the popular Roku OS, so I can't see them switching. So my first guess of who might go with TiVo is Vizio, whose own app platform has always been a bit of a mess. Panasonic, which still sells TVs outside the US and has their own generic smart OS (after dumping Firefox OS a few years ago), might adopt TiVo. Skyworth is a big Chinese brand that's just now starting to enter the US market. Like their Chinese rival Hisense, they use Android TV, but they may want to switch to something else in the US market to differentiate themselves.
     
  6. May 8, 2021 #6 of 163
    morac

    morac Cat God TCF Club

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  7. May 8, 2021 #7 of 163
    scottchez

    scottchez Active Member

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    I like the tivo remote at lot. What if they dump the tivo special apps and just use the google menu. Maybe include the button mapper or something like that so when you push Guide it brings up the guide for what ever you use like Youtube Hulu live or Sling guide
     
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  8. May 8, 2021 #8 of 163
    Sequoia225

    Sequoia225 Member

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    I still cant believe Tivo hasnt fixed the YTTV prooblem on the Stream 4K. Its unusable. Now I feel its not probably they will fix it.
     
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  9. May 8, 2021 #9 of 163
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    That was so long ago, before streaming really took off, and with such a minor brand, that I don't think it matters. No one remembers the TiVo/Insignia smart TV platform.

    That said, I'd say it's still an uphill climb for TiVo to get a major TV manufacturer to partner with them. The CEO said this on the Xperi earnings call this week:

    And so we've really jumped to from Phase 1 which is Stream 4K directly into working aggressively on getting our solutions embedded in TVs in a deeper level. So that's essentially what's happened, that work is ongoing and continues very well, continue to have partner discussions that I think are quite engaged around it.
    But between Roku and Google TV (and a few minor brands using Fire TV OS), TV manufacturers already have established, well-known smart platforms to choose from. So we'll see...
     
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  10. May 8, 2021 #10 of 163
    dbpaddler

    dbpaddler Well-Known Member

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    Well, if they end up in tv's, they need to fix all the quirks and be much more responsive in fixing new ones. One thing when you're spending $40 on a streamer. But when you drop a grand on a TV and have those issues, people get even more irate.

    Hell.... Reddit people are off the handle because of the simple banner ad now that Sony has updated their tv's. I paid good money for my Sony TV that didn't have ads... Blah blah blah.

    Yeah, like that was even a consideration in your purchase because actual panel and processing quality wasn't on your radar. And you knew it was coming for the past 6+ months and never preemptively said a word. But I digress.

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    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  11. May 8, 2021 #11 of 163
    morac

    morac Cat God TCF Club

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    The reason no one remembers the Tivo Insignia TV is it wasn’t very good.

    It was released 3 years after Roku was released, so streaming did exist back then.

    Also Insignia isn’t a tiny brand. They are are Best Buy’s own brand. They currently run the Amazon Fire TV interface.

    No TV manufacturer in their right mind is going to pick Tivo over Fire TV, Roku or Android (or even their own in house model). Not with TiVo’s current track record. They haven’t had a hit product in over a decade and have been acquired twice in that time frame.
     
  12. May 8, 2021 #12 of 163
    Foogie

    Foogie New Member

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    It is not a Tivo device problem but an AndroidTV version 9 issue, Ruku (which has got rid of YTTV), FireTV, CCWGTV do not run AndroidTV version 9. Also Tivo would be working on a problem that helps Sling's competition which I'm sure would be against the terms of their partnership.

    Why? you think they make money from selling the device?
     
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  13. May 9, 2021 #13 of 163
    Pokemon_Dad

    Pokemon_Dad Ruler of Unown UI

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    Wow, that Insignia TV didn't even have a CableCARD. In 2011. No wonder I never heard of it.

    I have two Insignia "Fire TV Edition" sets now. I can't imagine them going back to TiVo at this point.
     
  14. May 9, 2021 #14 of 163
    NashGuy

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    Nope. The % of TVs sold in the US, much less worldwide, that are Insignia is insignificant. The brand doesn't really matter in the overall TV industry. So far, those little brands are the only ones that are using Fire TV as their smart OS, which is why Fire TV is insignificant as a smart TV platform. (Virtually all of Fire TV's usage comes from Amazon's sticks, dongles and boxes.) Which is why I say that if TiVo is only able to sign up the same kind of niche generic/budget brands for their platform, then it won't succeed (because, unlike Amazon, they're clearly not making much of a dent in the connected streamer market with the Stream 4K).

    Large manufacturers taking meetings with Xperi/TiVo are not making a decision about whether or not to license TiVo's current software/UI/metadata based on the TiVo Insignia TV from several years ago instead of how current TiVo software and services operate. (Again, I'd bet no one in those meetings had any experience with that product or remembers it. There's been a ton of personnel turnover at TiVo since then as they've reorganized and merged with Xperi.) Even the quality (from a consumer perspective) of TiVo's current tech is probably not the most important factor in determining whether a TV manufacturer licenses them but rather other things, like cost, the potential for revenue and data sharing, TiVo brand recognition, etc.

    As I say, I wouldn't wager a bet that TiVo will be successful in landing a major TV brand to adopt their smart platform. But if they don't, it won't be because of the failed experiment with Insignia back in 2011. It'll be because TiVo is coming late to field already crowded with other big established competitors.
     
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  15. May 9, 2021 #15 of 163
    morac

    morac Cat God TCF Club

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    If TV manufacturers don’t recall TiVo’s dip into the retail TV market (or aren’t savvy enough to do the due diligence by researching this), then they definitely won’t even know that Tivo still exists.

    I’d be really surprised if Xperi could even get in the door to meet with TV manufacturers let alone get far enough along to be considered. TiVo’s UI is nothing special. Their software is designed for a DVR, which isn’t a TV and the one device they have that is designed for a TV runs Android/Google TV. Finally there are next to no apps for the “Tivo platform”.

    Maybe Tivo can partner with some off brand TV that no one has ever heard of, but like you said no one buys those. Also those companies can go with Google, Roku or Amazon and pay next to nothing to license their platforms as the big three make money through ads and aggregate data.

    Tivo can’t compete by offering an inferior product at a higher price.


    Here’s the current list of which companies use which platforms

    List of smart TV platforms - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  16. May 9, 2021 #16 of 163
    Old Roamio 0

    Old Roamio 0 Member

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    Smart TVs don't have to be that smart. Streaming dongles are around $50-60. It is still that way even after a tv is bought. As long as there are extra imputs on the TV then an upgrade is easy. That said: They would have to have something different maybe ... like being able to stream a TIVO dvr's recordings with the new TV.
     
  17. May 9, 2021 #17 of 163
    dbpaddler

    dbpaddler Well-Known Member

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    I highly doubt tivo is pushing their dvr platform in this day and age. Would imagine they would adapt their Stream app to a version of Android like Amazon did.

    And funny enough, if they then adapted it to a streaming stick, it very well could get legs if they took steps to not make it one giant ad machine like the direction all the others are going to. There is a strong contingent that abhor ads in any form, and Google's big banner seems to morally offend some to their core (laughably so).

    So no banner ad and minimal recommendations of content on services you don't pay for could very well win enough people over to get traction.

    If it was smooth running and worked well, I'd give one a shot. Why not? On the TV side, if it ends up like Roku and fire and just ends up on bargain basement quality sets, they'll go nowhere.

    Make the product solid and find a niche, there's room in the market. There's always room if you can at least secure one niche, and anti ad/commercial people are an angry bunch.

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  18. May 9, 2021 #18 of 163
    dbpaddler

    dbpaddler Well-Known Member

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    Such a small and dying user base cares about that. Hardly a demographic that matters on a new product. Not sure why people keep clinging to this like it's a thing for the masses.

    Ebay has more tivo dvr's than it can handle and selling prices just get cheaper and cheaper because the market is continually shrinking.

    I don't even think people that sold off their dvr equipment would see it as a reason to return at this point. I know I wouldn't. Would never go back to being shoehorned into a proprietary system. Especially when I'd bet money you will never see a Tivo atsc 3.0 dvr. Add in cable cards slowly dying off, I can't imagine boxes are selling anywhere close to what they were even just five years ago.


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  19. May 9, 2021 #19 of 163
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    One thing the TiVo Stream app has going for it is that it integrates all of Netflix's content into its cross-app watchlist. A huge chunk of streaming happens on Netflix and, as far as I know, no other major streaming integrator works with Netflix original content. I know the TV app on Apple TV, as well as the new Google TV system do not.

    I'm sure that there are improvements and tweaks to the UI and feature set that TiVo needs to make but assuming that, with the pull of a major TV brand behind them, they could get all the major apps to show up in a TiVo app store, it might be a pretty decent smart TV OS. Could be really appealing to cord-cutters if they threw in free OTA DVR service. Where Sling TV currently exists in the TiVo Stream system (in the grid guide, content recommendations, universal watchlist, etc.), imagine if they replaced that with OTA TV. Plug in your own USB hard drive or SD card to unlock the ability to pause, rewind and record OTA TV for free with TiVo's 14-day guide. They'd probably still require you to watch a streaming ad before you play your recordings, and maybe put static ads on the pause screen, but still, that kind of capability included free in a TV, integrated and intermingled with the most popular streaming content/apps, would be a real differentiator.
     
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  20. May 9, 2021 #20 of 163
    dbpaddler

    dbpaddler Well-Known Member

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    And if tivo ended up with any sort of market share, I'm sure Netflix would shut that down yesterday just like they did to Google.

    Netflix wants you to search Netflix first. And if they don't have what you want they have a whole list of recommendations they deem similar to try and keep you in their app. The more you search outside of Netflix, the more likely you are to find something to watch elsewhere.

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