TiVo Loses 163,000 Subscribers In October ‘08 Quarter

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and again- assuming every ex-directivo user goes back- what does that mean? They didn't make a profit when we were all there the first time.

 

not that i think netflix is tivo's savior but..

Quick question-

Do you not find I love lucy to be funny even though it’s mono and in black and white 4:3 SD?

Some really care about quality but for the masses I don’t think it’s such an issue. Convenience and the content itself I think trump those concerns. If that weren’t the case people would be made at “hd-lite” 2 HD’s on a QAM and all the other things that go on. I just stayed at a brand new resort that advertised HDTV’s in every suite. Sure they had HDTV but not a single HD channel. They just set the tv’s to stretch it all and I’m sure 90+% of the guests didn’t notice or at least didn’t care.

 

you're really bent on making the tivo sound as expensive as possible huh?


There's no need to exaggerate the total purchase price to buy a tivo and say it's 600 for the hardware. Your other points are very valid. It's just easier AND cheaper to go with cable- plan and simple. And that doesn't change if the tivo can be had for 200 or your mythical 600.

Tivo as it is now is for people that want tivo. It's not for people looking for the easiet to set up and cheapest.

 

I'm not bent on anything: I'm using the real prices that I would pay if I go to an HD Tivo. I've got quotes from my local TWC; talked to them Tuesday. I'm looking at the prices I'd pay if I buy a Tivo from a major retailer, including Tivo.com

You're right, I could drop the price discrepancy from $23 to $15/mo with the $299 Tivo HD, a less exhorbitant 15% premium. But then I have half the storage of the cable DVR, and wouldn't that be, as was said earlier, "comparing apples to bowling balls"?

I don't understand the contortions to try and escape the real pricing. Suggesting buying a lifetime sub is like having no subscription to pay? Suggesting home hacking the Tivo to add space cheaper. Suggesting bothering with selling stuff on eBay to defray costs?

And that's exactly the problem this thread is about: Another 160k people decided that Tivo is not for them.

I get no OTA reception. Currently I have "lifeline" cable at $10/mo for the local networks. An HD Tivo with OTA HD would be great, but I don't think I could receive the HD signals.

 

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Do you have an HDTV? If you do you might try it out. You might be surprised.... even with a little reception with a pair of rabbit ears... you might be able to buy a better antenna and get all the channels in clear reception.

I live about 15 miles from all the towers in the Dallas area and use an antenna in the attic. The picture is perfect but the picture from a pair of rabbit ears was a bit digitized on some of the channels.

 

It's really just a problem with people not using dollars and cents (sense) to make decisions.

 

For every Ying there's a Yang.
I paid $179 for a refurb HD Tivo plus $299 for the lifetime after I changed it from a monthly subscription and I spent another $109 for a 1 TB Hitachi drive to extend my recording space to 144 HD hours. So total outlay about $600.

I pay Charter cable an additional $4 a month for two S cable cards. I DON'T pay them $5 a month for an HD receiver and I DON'T pay them another $14.95 a month to add DVR functionality with 20-30 hours recording space on top of that.

So I save about $16 + taxes a month using a Tivo. So, in about 3 years I'll break even and in the meantime I have a lot more functionality and capacity than if I rented and I own it in the end.

Granted most people aren't going to crack the case and swap out a hard drive, but that's what the My DVR Expanders are for. Bottom line is that I don't see cost as an issue unless you can't afford the upfront costs.

 

I have an early HDTV without a digital tuner. But I have lousy analog reception (hence the lifeline cable), so I'd expect equally bad for digital. A new HDTV is a possible upgrade next year (new home electronics or deck... tough choice ) I didn't bother with the subsidized digital converter box; I didn't want to pay $20+ for something I wouldn't use.

Donnoh - interesting counter-example

 

I recently hooked up a coupon converter box for my parents. Before hooking it up some stations had really poor snowy reception, others were fine. After hooking it up they marveled at the wonderful picture on all channels on that old television, saying they didn't believe it could look that good. They were thinking of replacing it, but now plan to keep it and save their money.

Give it a try, you might be pleasantly surprised.

 

Don't forget that $40 off coupons for converter boxes are available from the government and can be applied for here.

 

Yep, the analog in my area sucked as well. And I went ahead and tried the converter box and rabbit ears. And before anyone says it... yes the picture is a lot better but it's a LOT better with a box that does not convert back to analog. So, a Tivo or an HDTV will have a LOT better picture than the converter boxes.

 

The CEO did say that the DirecTV deal was significantly higher then what it use to be(from conference call transcript). In addition to that, directv will do most if not all of the advertising for TiVo. This means that TiVo will have high profit margin from the DirecTiVo subscribers.

TiVo is just about at break even now for the year if you don't count the Echostar payout. The new deal with DirecTV which gives tivo significantly more revenues per box then the previous deal will have a major impact on the bottom line. So it's safe to say that TiVo will be earning profits if most of the former DirecTivo subs come back.

 

That's not what I meant. Hopefully the MSO's will offer a Full TiVo software upgrade. No censoring of any features. I know that this is very unlikely, thats why I said hopefully. But if lets say the top 4 out of 5 companies offer TiVo services, the only way that each company can differentiate is by adding more and more TiVo features to their subs. This can lead to MSO's offering a full TiVo software box.

Don't forget that TiVo wants to be a pure software company that loads its software onto MSO's boxes. They are losing money for every box that they sell.

 

Or a digital system not compatible - like ATT UVerse.

That is what happened to my Sister-In-Law. She had two SA TiVos (1 S1, 1 S2) and Comcast went all digital. She switched to ATT UVerse since it was cheaper counting cable DVR .

 

That's an encouraging note When we upgrade to a new TV, we'll test out reception. Ideally, we'd get OTA HD and could use a Tivo HD without needing cable.

 

don't think they were ever in walmart. they are in best buy and circuit city and some other stores like that.

This seems to me like the 8th annual TiVo is dying thread and like the others is trying so hard to analyze with so little actual info.

they actually beat analysts (you know the guys who get to gather all the real info and make some actual determinatiuons based on the actual info) expectations


PS -TiVo lost 28,000 actual subs - that includes lifetimes that go over 4 years old.
the other 135,000 had going to something else determined for them by DirectTV

 

MichaelK has to be referring back to when Wal-Mart and K-Mart had the Philips Series 1 units....

Scott

 

ah ok, that was a while back. Walmart is known to be very demanding of vendors, perhaps TiVo decided it was not worth trying to keep them on the Walmart shelf. Walmart does not seem the place to try and sell a stand alone HD DVR anyway. TiVo is in that gray area between walmart and focused Home Theater stores and missed the boat last year on a under 500$ retail HD DVR in the best buy stores. now this year the economy is sinking sales. Good thing TiVo has that nice pile of cash to see them through

 

I jumped from DirecTV to Verizon FIOS. Better picture quality and no more weather interruptions. I'd imagine this was a 'win' for Tivo since they get the sub money directly instead of through DirecTV.

 

I noticed in your bio line you have the Panny 800U Plasma. We'll be getting ours delivered shortly....will be dropping Dtv and switching to Comcast and purchasing the TiVo HDXL. Comcast in my area is offering existing Dtv users a superior deal. I really like Dtv, but I like TiVo better, so Dtv is losing out (for now).... The off topic part is, how are you liking your Pannny and TiVo HD? Thanks in advance.