TIVO lied to MAC users and continues too!

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by llarsondc, Jan 11, 2006.

  1. Feb 17, 2006 #81 of 102
    TydalForce

    TydalForce Active Member

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    Philadelphia...
    I've been a Mac user for about 4 years now. I grew up with Windows. I switched, and can consider myself much happier for the experience.

    Mac OS X is a lot more stable than Windows. And that includes XP. I've used both. I work with both, and I support Windows at work. I keep my systems clean and do my best to keep them stable and efficient. Windows still crashes.

    As far as interface goes, OS X is a lot more user friendly. If you've used both, and are comfortable using both, you understand.

    If you've never taken a little time to explore the Mac, then you won't understand. Stop by an Apple Store or an Apple Reseller and talk to someone who knows Macs. Ask for a tour.

    Macs are priced in line with comparably equipped PCs if you factor in the hardware PCs don't always include (bluetooth, wireless, FireWire, etc) and the incredible bundle of software. Factor in the lower cost of ownership (don't have to shell out $50/year for anti-virus software, plus more reliable hardware and less downtime) and it often costs less to own a Mac.

    Plus they're pretty (c:

    If you want to use Windows, that's fine - be my guest. Just don't put down the Mac community or discriminate against us.
     
  2. Feb 18, 2006 #82 of 102
    jones07

    jones07 eff.org warrior

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    Post what you got under the hood of your " high-end Windows machine " for 400 bucks :cool:
     
  3. Feb 18, 2006 #83 of 102
    megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    If Apple would sell OS X to run on generic x86 hardware I might use it. But as long as I have to buy over-priced systems to use it, I'll stick with Windows and Linux for my needs. For laptops I can get higher performance systems than Apple, for the same money. And for desktops I'll build my own from components, and I can get much more powerful systems for the same money that way. I run Windows on my laptop - the one I'm on right now - and I really don't have problems with it. Now that VMWare Server is out in beta, I'm thinking of running that to have Linux in a virtual machine at the same time. (I had more old laptop dual-booting.) When I bought this (an HP Pavilion ZV5000) I did consider Apple systems, but I priced out the options and capabilities, and there was no way I could justify the cost for what I'd get. I honestly don't remember what the prices where at the time, this was a high end laptop when I got it - Athlon64 3200+, 1680x1050 display, 11g, BlueTooth, card reader, etc. Just couldn't get that from Apple, and what I could get cost more.

    OS X is nice, but the overall value propisition is poor, IMHO. I do have an iPod, my second one, and I was willing to pay more for that, compared to other players, because the overal value - including iTunes, accessory market, the quality UI, etc - made itr worth it. Since I'm a Director of IT Operations and I have to deal with Windows and Linux regularly I can't really avoid it anyway.
     
  4. Feb 19, 2006 #84 of 102
    mec1991

    mec1991 Cranky old coot

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    Back home...
    And you'd be out of a job if the world used Macs anyway, right? ;)

    Truthfully, I see where you are coming from, but it's the user experience for me. I have a desktop PC which I use to play a few games and well, that's about it nowadays. I use XP at work and have no problems with it. But I use my PowerBook for 99% of what I do at home because I enjoy using it.

    It's one of those things a person either "gets" or doesn't. In my case, I don't "get" expensive cars. To me, a vehicle is simply something to go from point a to point b. I think most people regard computers that way.

    Hope this made some sense. :)
     
  5. Feb 20, 2006 #85 of 102
    megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    I wouldn't use Macs for servers in any case. I'm looking at going to VMWare ESX Server to get more productivity out of our hardware, and Mac OS doesn't have a solid virtualization solution. Also, head to head on the same hardware, MacOS gets stomped by Linux in server performance. The OS architecture and microkernal message passing hurts it. Anandtech had a nice test write up on that last fall. To be fair, Apple really doesn't push MacOS as a server platform.

    My XP laptop is basically a high powered graphics terminal most of the time. I almost always, like right now, have an SSH window open on the left and Firefox open on the right. In addition to those I'll have IM (Gaim & Google Talk) open some of the time, and iTunes, IRC, TiVo software, etc, open as needed. From time to time I play games, VPN into work, etc. For documentation work I use OpenOffice.org For what I need it works well enough, and while OS X would probably do much of the same work, I don't run into as many software issues (like TiVo Desktop). Also, I work for a company that makes a Windows-only software product. (At some point we're likely to move it to a web-based system, I'm pushing for that.)

    As an IT director I would love to be able to get rid of all the Windows boxes in my machine room and go 100% UNIX/Linux. But we have some software that only runs on Windows - like a lot of the stuff the engineering team builds, since they're into C#/.Net these days. (Yes, I know about Mono, but I wouldn't use it in production.) I wish they'd gone with Java or PHP or something cross-platform... And for corporate desktops, I really can't avoid Windows - lots of little things people use. Developers want Visual Studio. Sales has GoldMine (I think that's Windows only). Outlook is unshakable. (I'd love to be rid of Exchange/Outlook...) Finance has some Windows-only software. I'm gently pushing for Firefox and OpenOffice.org instead of IE and MS-Office. The former on security issues, the latter on cost. One battle at a time - well, a handful at a time. :)
     
  6. Feb 20, 2006 #86 of 102
    TydalForce

    TydalForce Active Member

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    megazone - keep pushing for the open standards, they're good for everyone!!!

    I, too, work for a company with Windows-only products, but in my own little way I nudge them for standards and cross-platform compatibility when I can. Granted, I'm only in support so my influence is rather limited, but it doesn't stop me from trying!

    I've heard the same things about OS X as a server, and myself would likely use a Unix/Linux solution if needed. I do have OS X Server on an old box in my basement, since my own server demands are rather low, and the interface to configure all the server goodies is a lot nicer than anything I've dealt with on Linux.

    Don't be afraid to try out a Mac if you ever need another machine. Consider it an experiment, and an opportunity to learn something new. Even if you decide its not for you, you'll be more familiar with yet another platform - and that always makes you more valuable.
     
  7. Feb 20, 2006 #87 of 102
    thenightfly42

    thenightfly42 Señor Senior, Jr.

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    To quote from the Coffee House forum rules:
    I'm pretty sure Mac vs. PC debates are covered under "religion".
     
  8. Feb 20, 2006 #88 of 102
    DocNo

    DocNo Member

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    First, there really isn't that much difference between Apple and top end PC hardware. If you are throwing together parts, sure you can beat Apple's prices - but then again you have to do much more work to integrate everything yourself - and time is money, even if it's your off-hours time. Apple's industrial design is worth something - to me and many others at least.

    And even discounting the minor difference in price, if you really are a director of IT operations then you should fully understand that over the life of a computer, initial acquisition costs are less than 20% of the equation. I have PC's and Mac's at home, and I find I use the Mac's more simply because I never have to worry about the "computer" aspect of things. I pick up the tool, and it just works - because in the end, for me, the computer is a tool. Computers used to be a hobby and I used to enjoy tinkering with them for the sake of tinkering but no longer. I now have other things that I would much rather spend my time on. Fixing and maintaining computers because of inherently poor system design (hardware and software combined) is no longer appealing. Same thing for Linux. We use it for servers, where it has a very good value proposition, but for home uses - other than proving a political point, for me it's just not useful. The majority of the software I want is only available on commercial OS's. And the usability of desktop environments like KDE and GNOME are a joke. Until the *nix weenies quit holding "regular users" with contempt for their desire to not have to master tons of administrative trivia to install, configure and maintain their OS, OSS will never penetrate the desktop in significant numbers. It will remain an exercise for hard-core techno-geeks who think memorizing thousands of points of trivia and mastering hundreds of inconsistencies in design are "fun".

    Apple's integrated and well thought out design is worth, to me, the minuscule price difference.

    If you were buying hardware for the sake of having hardware just sit there, then your point might be somewhat valid. However, computers are systems of hardware and software - and to me, Apple has the most polished system.

    Much like the reason you bought your iPod. Ironic you can see the value for an iPod, but your focus on hardware costs totally blinds you to the same benefits for computers.

    And thenightfly42, discussions of platform are religious in nature - heck, this entire forum is an evangelism site for Tivo - quite possibly the only group of tech users who are as fanatical as Mac users :) Probably because really good industrial design and a user interface combined with a focus on what people really want creates devoted, fanatical fan bases :)
     
  9. Feb 20, 2006 #89 of 102
    hammer32

    hammer32 TiVo Combat Crew

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    As an Apple/Mac user since 1986 I'd have to agree with that statement!

    :D
     
  10. Feb 20, 2006 #90 of 102
    MickeS

    MickeS Active Member

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    Wow, and people say the TCF members have been drinking the Kool-Aid!

    The day less downtime has to be counted as an economical advantage for a home user in order to explain a purchase is the day you know you've paid too much for your equipment.

    Ande "more reliable hardware" is just more marketing yada yada. If you buy name-brand items, they are not more or less reliable on a Mac than they are on a Windows XP PC.
     
  11. Feb 21, 2006 #91 of 102
    megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    I'm not blinded to anything. The cost difference is not minor, and I very, very, very have any trouble with my Windows boxes. So there really isn't that great, if any, advanage to MacOS for me. Windows 'just works' for what I do as well. Since I do install and play games from time to time, that's a strike against using Mac OS. And since TiVo is important to me, the lack of TTG support at this time is pretty much a fatal blow against MacOS from my perspective. The things that work in favor of the iPod for me work against the Mac. iTunes is the dominant music store - so there is more 'software' for iPod. Well, there is more 'software' for Windows. iPod has more accessories - generic PC hardware has more options. Some of it is also the codec - after trying out MP3, AAC and WMA, I decided I wanted to use AAC to rip all 700+ of my CDs. Many of the other players wouldn't handle AAC - iPod does, just as Windows will run applications I want that Mac doesnt. So the iPod is more like a Windows PC than a Mac in that it is the dominant market player, has more software and hardware support, and, most importantly, it does what I want and the other platform doesn't.

    And note that I'm not a big fan of Windows, not in the least, in fact I think it is a ****** OS. But it works well enough for what I need out of my day to day desktop. Servers are a different beast.

    When I bought this laptop I couldn't get comparable specs from Apple at any price. I did try some friends' Power Books and while they looked snazzy, I wasn't impressed - I especially detested the one button touch pad. (Hell, I wish I had three buttons on my windows touch pad - middle click is very useful in Firefox, I use it all the time on my trackball. (Yeah, I can hit both to simulate, but it isn't the same.)) I don't remember the numbers, but I was shocked at how expensive the top end Power Book was when compared to the this laptop, and this laptop was a better performer. The life cycle cost is practically nil for me. There is little maintenance aside from approving installaton of patches, which I have featched automatically, and keeping A/V up to date - which I would do on a Mac too.

    And on desktop machines, the price gap is wider since I do enjoy building my own box, when I feel the need for a desktop. In a work environment we buy units, but for myself I'll take some components from my last box, mix with new components, and make a new box. I haven't done that for several years now, since I haven't really needed a desktop for much, but I'm getting the itch again. When I do it I usually go a bit crazy and built an uber box from components. As for industrial design - there are PC cases with access as good, or better, than Mac cases. Other than that, I don't care one bit what it looks like. I've never been into case modding, fancy looking machines, etc. I tend to use the grey or black box style cases. Functionality is all that matters. (And, honestly, I haven't liked the look of some of the Mac desktops like the old G3's with the 'handles' on the corners.)

    The reason I'd consider MacOS X is that I've been using UNIX about as long as DOS/Win. I started on UNIX in '89, and DOS in maybve '87 or so. I'm a UNIX person. I read my mail in mutt, I read USENet in strn, I use procmail to sort my mail, etc. Since MaxOS X is UNIX with a pretty GUI, there is some appeal there.

    I think the current Gnome is just fine (I've never really bothered with KDE) for me. I would't say it is for the average user, but I'm not the average user. If it weren't for TiVo and iTunes, I'd probably be running Linux as my primary OS. (I was a Red Hat Certified Engineer, but that lapsed and I didn't bother renewing.) With VMWare Server I'll probably end up running Windows and Linux simultaneously, which seems like the best of both worlds to me.

    Macs are fine boxes, and MacOS X is a nice operating system - I'd say it is superior to Windows. But, from a practical standpoint, I can't justify buying Macs for myself - and I couldn't dream of a justification for them at work, other than testing software compatibility for the platform. I'd get farther pitching Linux to replace Windows than MacOS, on cost alone.
     
  12. Feb 21, 2006 #92 of 102
    TydalForce

    TydalForce Active Member

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    Philadelphia...
    OK I'm going to file this one under "agree to disagree". Those of us who use Macs have our reasoning for doing so, and arguments to back it up. Those of us who use Windows and don't want to switch have their arguments too.

    This thread could go on for a dozen more pages, and we'd probably only wind up getting angry and causing a fight - and I don't think any of us really want that. We're here for TiVo and all its TiVoey goodness.

    So while I don't think we should lock this thread or anything, lets try to move on to happier topics instead of contiuing the Mac vs. Windows debate.

    Agreed?
     
  13. Apr 7, 2006 #93 of 102
    Chazz

    Chazz New Member

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    Agreed!











    macs rule.

    sorry. ;)
     
  14. Apr 7, 2006 #94 of 102
    TiVo Ninja

    TiVo Ninja New Member

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    Waaaaaaaah!! TiVo lied to me!!!!!! They don't state anywhere that they don't support Series1 anymore but I can't get any version of TiVo Desktop to work with it...........not even Galleon! Waaaaaaaah!! ;) :D


    Aye caramba. Does crying and whining really get Mac users what they want? So many of you have this cult-like smugness when stating how "superior" your product is, yet you make such a fuss when you don't get what you want. Apparently a "superior" product doesn't indicate a superior user. We get it.....you want TiVoToGo..........shut up already.

    Every time I see a Mac thread, it seems to be filled with this level of complaining. I'm sure I'm not the only person who rolls his eyes :rolleyes: and thinks "here we go again".

    /sarcasm

    Seriously though, why must there be this constant white noise of continual griping over minor things? Why don't you save it up for something substantial so people would be more likely to listen? I think it would add more weight to individual complaints if you weren't complaining all the time. Otherwise the people who might actually pay attention can't see the trees for the forest.

    /rant
    Helluva first post. I'll now brace myself for the onslaught of heightened complaining and defensiveness.
     
  15. Apr 7, 2006 #95 of 102
    TydalForce

    TydalForce Active Member

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    Philadelphia...
    really not the nicest way to join the forum, but welcome aboard
     
  16. Apr 7, 2006 #96 of 102
    audioscience

    audioscience OG Lurker

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    LMAO. Great first post in my opinion. :D
     
  17. Apr 7, 2006 #97 of 102
    jfelbab

    jfelbab WineBoZo

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    Dftt.
     
  18. Jan 4, 2013 #98 of 102
    cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Member

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    Wild. And tivo released tivo stream which works only with iOS devices. Amazing right?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  19. Jan 4, 2013 #99 of 102
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    Whoa. Blast from the past. :p
     
  20. Jan 5, 2013 #100 of 102
    Arcady

    Arcady Stargate Fan

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    Philadelphia...
    A 6 year old thread? Really?

    I think Macs were still running on PowerPC chips when this thread was started. And TiVo was on Series 2. What's the point of resurrecting this thread?
     

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