TiVo Launches $50 Streaming Video Player to Take On Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV

Discussion in 'TiVo Stream 4K' started by mbernste, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. BillyClyde

    BillyClyde Active Member

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    You can use the cheaper AT&T TV Now with it. You don’t have to have the expensive AT&T TV with a 24 month contract.
     
  2. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Lots of things are possible even though they are highly improbable. I guess it's also possible that Google will buy TiVo and use their Hydra UI on all Google video apps and devices. But there are no observable reasons to believe that might happen. Meanwhile, there are several observable reasons to think it won't. Same holds true with the scenario you're wishing for.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  3. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Unless this has recently changed, AT&T won't sell their AT&T TV box to customers subscribed to AT&T TV Now, only those those with AT&T TV. But if you buy one of those boxes used (off of eBay or wherever), you should be able to use it with an AT&T TV Now account.
     
  4. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    I know. I did precisely that for over a year, until AT&T TV NOW got insanely expensive. Except for Watch, all the AT&T TV streaming services are insanely expensive. My AT&T TV NOW plan started at $35. By the time I cancelled it was up to $70 for the same exact channels or $85+ for even fewer channels.

    Correct. A box off ebay works fine with NOW. Obviously, it's a doorstop without AT&T TV or AT&T TV NOW as you said. The box won't work with Watch either, AFAIK.
     
  5. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I've never heard of anyone being able to use the box with AT&T Watch TV. Speaking of which, it probably won't be around much longer anyway. It stopped taking new subscribers today.

    AT&T is killing its cheap TV bundle for cord cutters

    It was only ever really meant, I think, as a freebie to include with upper-tier AT&T Wireless plans, which is a role that HBO Max now fills.

    After having a mess of different brands and services, AT&T is slowly culling their video offerings down to just HBO Max and AT&T TV.
     
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  6. Alex_7

    Alex_7 Member

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    I heard pretty soon they will merge HBO Max and ATT TV into one service/app.
     
  7. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    That makes no sense at all.
     
  8. Alex_7

    Alex_7 Member

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  9. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Bundled together makes perfect sense, as does giving access to all HBO Max content within the AT&T TV app. But turning HBO Max and AT&T TV into a single product makes no sense. If they did that, then nobody could get just HBO. They'd have to pay $165 for a single product that has 200 channels they don't want. That would never fly. I don't like HBO enough to pay more than $5 for it, much less $165.
     
  10. BillyClyde

    BillyClyde Active Member

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    You two were making it out like it was impossible and simply couldn’t happen, but it can and it is possible. Sling IS an MSO, no different than AT&T TV (why do you think they had to negotiate their own deals, separate from DirecTV, for channels and still can’t offer NFL ST, etc.?) at least enough so that Google would allow them to use Operator Tier, should they decide they wanted to.
     
  11. cwoody222

    cwoody222 Well-Known Member

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    Sling is not an MSO.

    Sling is OOT like Hulu Live and YouTubeTV.

    Since you want definitions, per the FCC the difference is if the service is transmitted to your home by the same entity or freely over the internet.

    Over-the-top media service - Wikipedia

    Wikipedia does categorize ATT TV as an OOT service.
    AT&T TV - Wikipedia

    But, as already discussed in this thread, features of ATT TV (contract, proprietary rented boxes, internet bundles) seems to let them operate in a grey area where Google has allowed them to use the Operator Tier.

    But Sling is clearly an OOT, by FCC definition. Therefore, unless google makes an exception, they would not be allowed to use the Operator Tier.

    The reason the Operator Tier exists is so a company couldn’t use Android to create a better retail device than Googles own devices and create completion for them.

    Google cares less about a regional MSO creating an experience on a proprietary rental box since that is less likely to compete with their nationwide retail ambitions.

    If Sling sold a retail box using a customized Android TV interface that rivaled Chromecast, google would be competing against themself.

    The exception here being Amazon who sells a highly customized retail Android box. We do not know the business relationship between Amazon and Google to allow this situation.

    But, back to the topic, Sling is not MSO according to the FCC. They are OOT.
     
  12. cwoody222

    cwoody222 Well-Known Member

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    Proof? Links? Documents? Regulations? Or pure speculation?
     
  13. BillyClyde

    BillyClyde Active Member

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    Neither is AT&T TV, as you rightly point out. By the way, you forgot to add AT&T TV to that list. ;-)

    I think you mean OTT, not OOT.

    The boxes aren’t rented. You buy and own them. That’s why there’s so many on eBay.

    OK, I got the acronym wrong. It shouldn’t be called MSO, it should be MVPD. And guess what, BOTH AT&T TV and Sling are categorized as an MVPD!

    [​IMG]

    So therefore:

    1. AT&T TV = MVPD = Can and does use Android Operator Tier

    2. SlingTV = MVPD = Can also use Android Operator Tier if they want (with enough cash, as I said)

    So Google has apparently set the precedent that they’ll allow MVPDs to use the Operator Tier. They let AT&T TV use Operator Tier, so they’d certainly let Sling TV use it too. Coincidentally, both AT&T TV and Sling’s parent companies have traditional residential TV broadcast platforms too, DirecTV and DISH, so the similarities and possibilities are even more evidence it could happen if they wanted to and Sling provided enough capital to make it worth Google’s time.

    Thanks for proving my point! Did you even read your own links?

    We are just going around and around here. Let’s agree to disagree. OK, go ahead and have the last word, but also have a wonderful day and stay safe out there!
     
  14. cwoody222

    cwoody222 Well-Known Member

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    Proof? Links? Documents? Regulations? Or pure speculation?
     
  15. cwoody222

    cwoody222 Well-Known Member

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    But again, what device are you talking about?

    You are talking about SlingTV. I thought we were here to talk about devices MADE BY TIVO.

    TiVo is in no way shape or form any type of video distributor that would qualify to use the Operator Tier. There is no way that any RETAIL device SOLD BY TIVO would be allowed to use the Operator Tier.

    It's fine if you're talking about the POSSIBILITY of a device MADE BY SLING but the Stream 4K is not made or sold by Sling.
     
  16. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    The plan that AT&T has discussed/leaked multiple times is that AT&T TV Now (not AT&T TV) will eventually get absorbed into HBO Max as an optional add-on tier. I would argue that that makes a lot of sense. As it stands now, AT&T TV Now is just the contract-free, promo-free, no-custom-box-included version of AT&T TV. Both services offer the same channel packages and line-ups, but have different prices. (AT&T TV is a better value if plan to keep either service for at least a year.) While AT&T TV is marketed as the company's new flagship cable TV service, and aggressively bundled with AT&T home broadband, AT&T TV Now targets cord-cutters and isn't really actively marketed at all any more.

    Rather than have AT&T TV Now indefinitely exist as an awkward appendage of the main AT&T TV brand, at some point (maybe late 2020, maybe 2021) they'll kill AT&T TV Now and instead offer one or more live cable bundles as optional add-ons inside of HBO Max, the same thing Hulu has been doing for years. Given that the contract-free HBO Max is the company's main play for cord-cutters, it makes more sense to also make that app home to their contract-free cable TV service targeting that crowd. And as I've said before, HBO Max is becoming the company's foundational video offering and if you only want one service from them, they want it to be HBO Max, not the cable bundle.
     
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  17. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    No, Sling is not an MSO. They're a vMVPD owned by a satellite TV company (DISH). AT&T is an MSO (multi-system operator that offers both broadband and cable TV) who operates a vMVPD (AT&T TV) as their flagship cable TV service. They market and provision that vMVPD in a way that's more similar to traditional MVPDs than to vMVPDs like Sling, Hulu Live, or AT&T TV Now.
     
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  18. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    @NashGuy Still makes no sense. If HBO Max morphs into just an AT&T TV / HBO Max combo, the cheapest HBO Max available would be $100 and include a bunch of cable channels most people already have. They would lose millions of cable, satellite, OTA and streaming customers who currently just get HBO Max as a $15 add-on.
     
  19. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Active Member

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    I think you missed his point. He thinks that HBO Max will be there for $15 but have add-ons available to expand it into some bigger channel selection. Essentially just a marketing change. The problem I see with that is that the prices for ATT subscriptions without contracts and associated ETF are just outrageously high. IMO, just another non-starter.

    But IMO, HBO Max, while a fine offering in no way can replace the other subscriptions and certainly would reduce ATT revenues to a fraction of what they are today. And of course there is the issue that HBO Max is not available on 70% of streaming devices out there.
     
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  20. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, HBO Max (all ad-free) will still be $15, with the option of adding one or more packages of live cable channels with cloud DVR, same as Hulu with Live TV (which is $12 ad-free and then an extra $49 to add the Live TV package with basic cloud DVR). What that HBO Max cable channel add-on package(s) will look like and how much it'll cost, we'll have to wait and see. (There will also be a cheaper, or possibly even free, tier of HBO Max with ads that debuts in 2021.) But all this probably won't happen until the HBO Max app is available on more devices. It'll eventually get there on Roku, I think. Amazon, IDK. (Or care.) Until that time, I guess they'll keep around AT&T TV Now.

    At any rate, I don't think AT&T is super-concerned about selling cable TV subscriptions to contract-free cord-cutters. Unlike Google (YTTV) and Hulu, AT&T already has a big business selling cable TV packages to non-cord-cutters via DirecTV, AT&T TV and Uverse TV. They know that business will continue to dwindle away over time but I don't think they're especially interested in hastening that demise by offering competing cord-cutter packages that can be dropped and picked up any time (e.g. subscribe only for basketball season) at monthly prices that would leave them very low profit margins. And that's basically what Google and Hulu are doing. But then these are new additive ventures for those companies and what they're doing with Hulu Live and YTTV doesn't undercut any of their existing core businesses.
     
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