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Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by andyf, Sep 19, 2019.
It just brings in consistent subscription fees month after month and year after year.
Are you stating that the advertisers pay fees? I ask because I had TVGOS and never paid anything, nor did my hardware manufacturer (Sony). But with TiVo, we can mostly skip the network ads and the TiVo ads. This is confusing.
I meant the consumers, with our monthly/annual/Lifetime subscription fees.
I think I get it. 15 years ago, when Sony came out with the DHG, it paid Gemstar for the guide. Sony dropped the product and it took a few years for Sony to stop paying the fees to TVGOS.
Which has always been a challenge with local cable advertising, even cable company dvrs can skip ads.
I did not repeat the guided setup. The technical support person never mentioned it.
I guess I should at least try restarting it to see if that does anything.
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It is not the subscription fees that they are talking about. There is about 200,000 households in the US that have retail TiVos in them. That number is not growing. Also most of these retail owners are old loyal owners that don’t like any changes and cause TiVo to be stuck in the mud. Those that refuse to move to TE4 because some minor feature is missing is a good example.
Besides the majority of the US population is not going to pay hundreds of dollars for a DVR. Maybe if it was $50 at Walmart and didn’t need a cablecard they would have a lot more customers.
I think the end of line is coming for retail TiVos. At some point they will announce they are shutting down the consumer side and just keep the cable side going as that is what Gemstar/Rovi did in the past with TVGOS.
The problem has always been most people will never by a DVR period, they see it as part of a cable box or satellite box. I remember when my father had a cable dvr, I didn't talk him into a Tivo because it's hard to deal with cable card issues over the phone 2000 miles away. He would have probably need a tuning adaptor too.
My cable provider raising DVR rental fees pushed me toward TiVo.
Do you think more people would go for TiVo if a TiVo was an rental option from the cable company? Perhaps with options to buy.
It could. If you don't have to deal with cable cards and tuning adaptors the actual operation of a Tivo is fairly simple, the remote fits nicely in your hand. The guide is nice and big. It's really a simple device.
I understand that TiVo has challenges with DVR retail sales. But TiVo's own actions don't help. So relatively little general active marketing--when was the last time that you saw a general consumer TiVo ad? And limited retail store availability. I came to the TiVo world through online tech. awareness and word-of-mouth--but I'm not sure that a big part of the consumer world is even aware of TiVo now.
I agree that there's a price barrier. Understandable: $200 for a TiVo box followed by monthly credit card dings or a whopping $550 up-front payment. (I still remember when people here would tell me that I was wrong and that Lifetime really wasn't all that costly, lol.) Especially coming from the OTA world, the payment of a monthly subscription "access" fee to use the DVR that I just had purchased (and for no content) was a hard concept to grasp.* I applauded, and still do, TiVo's modified pricing paradigm for the OTA world, with included or lower-priced subscription.
I disagree with you that many of us are stuck-in-the-mud TiVo users who don't want change and development (yes, I am one of them). I relish it--but I want it to work and to be done well. A TE4 that has a dysfunctional Suggestions, that eliminates PC-to-TiVo box transfers, that bulloxes (in multiple ways) TiVo-to-TiVo box transfers, and that eliminates the superior (at least for me) Live Guide just doesn't cut it (for me), for those logical reasons. While you might see these as "minor" features, for others of us, they're not (I've tried at length, but I just find the Grid Guide as painful). I even might be more accepting of the pre-roll ads (as abhorrent as I find that concept in the TiVo world) if they actually worked smoothly (although they seem to have "improved" since the initial roll-out)--but spinning circle delays, placeholder arrow pages, and TiVo box freezes? Come on, TiVo, what were you thinking and doing?
* What finally got me in the door was a close-out sale on the Toshiba Series 2 TiVo box that I purchased, which further incorporated a DVD player that I didn't yet have, and which included a free "TiVo Basic" subscription (a stripped-down TiVo subscription that provided TiVo basic DVR operation including trickplay and a 2-day Guide, but without bells-and-whistles such as Season Passes--an interesting experiment to get people in the door and then to upsell them on a full TiVo subscription (which worked in my case, lol)).
I agree, My Premiere and Roamios all still working well and all on TE3 and I am very happy with the service. No panic and complaining at my home. As long as they leave TE3 alone I will be happy. I use Roku for streaming.
I genuinely like the look of the og menu system/guide. The new one looks bland and sterile. The lifeless gray does and uninspiring font do nothing for me. The og is just more fun to look at and use.
And I think if tivo focused on the streaming aspect to give people the same experience they get with fire and roku, make chromecast seamless with it; It would be the perfect all in one solution for those that want live TV (cable or Ota) and streaming. Don't make boxes that force you to buy a new one if you cut the cord. One reason I'll never buy an Edge. I'm Ota now. If I bought an Edge for Ota and decide to go back to cable, I have to buy a new box? This goes right into my beef drawer of no card slots, no headphone jacks and so on. I don't like the whole industry trend to removing essentials, limiting choice and forced upgrade paths strictly to upsell for increased margins and/or add on sales.
Give me an Edge that can do both cable and Ota with a focus on supporting streaming apps. If they want to make an OTA one only for cheaper, fine. Just give me the ota/cable one. I'll gladly pay more if I can have the one box to rule them all. Then upgrade the 4k mini to support the same complement of streaming apps or at least allow it to stream the app from the Edge. Giving me the cohesive ecosystem I once remember tivo being. Then market it to be the one box to rule them all, no transcoding needed. No separate always on pc needed, and so on.
I find the all of the Tivo TE3 screens very easy to read and I also like the live guide. I'm not a big fan of any guides or lists that replace text with thumbnails like in TE4.
I find the Xfinity X1 screens very hard to navigate and text very hard to read, and if Tivo went away I'd probably have to use X1 more but my eyes start bothering me after browsing on there.
I also have Channels DVR set up and find their guide and interface easy to read except for a few screens where their purple colors cause a problem. I wish they had text lists of recordings but they use those thumbnails that I don't like but their implementation is fairly good.
The color and contrast issues have been raised a more than a few times in the Channels Community forum. I love the purple theme overall, but it could use some work here-and-there.
The "Recordings" section of the web UI comes close to useful text list. I'd love to see that added to the client apps, with folder and sorting options.
Channels gets closer to replacing my TiVo every day. And look Ma, no ads!
TE 4 is cool because of autoskip and voice search. Voice search "Goto CNBC" is cool...
I am not a TE4 hater like many, I did get used to the interface after awhile but I still just don't think it's worth the upgrade for those who have been comfortable with TiVo interface that so many have grown to love over the past decade or more.
The font size is pretty silly given the demographic of legacy users (no offense)
The white on gray look is trying to be "minimalistic" or something when it's really just more difficult to see or navigate for others. But because these concerns don't bother me personally, I am ok with TE4 interface...it's just the lag that bothers me on Roamio models. Oh and the ads in the Live Guide are quite annoying but the TiVo+ doesn't bother me no more than TE3's occasional star recommendations on the main menu below Settings.
I have yet to see any prerolled ads on recorded shows but I still think that's limited to either only Viacom content somehow or maybe cable company provided TiVos?
Despite all the negatives I see...TE4 does grow on you after awhile and it's not the worst thing in the world. TE3 is just better to stick with for many people who love their TiVo already. Autoskip is a wonderful treat when it's available. And voice controls are cool features to make your TiVo not seem so old to others when people are used to google assistant, siri, and alexa everywhere they go ---
TLDR for deciding to upgrade:
Do you really need voice search and autoskip? Or can you just press SKIP/or/D button and not risk the negatives of TE4 everyone echos?
Yeah, I use the browser version quite a bit to schedule things, maintain schedule, delete recordings, etc. I do wish there was a way to bulk delete recordings. Like click edit and have boxes to check for recordings I want to delete. For instance, if I have 30 episodes of a show recorded and I want to delete 25 of them I have to do each individually with many clicks. I've heard they can be deleted easier on the actual server file system and then a command can purge them but I haven't tried that.
TE4’s CEC remote control was also a game changer, and a deciding factor for me.
Yes, autoskip is quite nice but I hate ads more than I like those features.
We’ve had TE4 on the Master Bedroom Bolt long before the pre-roll ads. Now that TiVo removed the pre-roll ads, we enjoy those features again and tolerate the guide ads.
I prefer the TE3 guide interface so I insist on leaving the Family Room (main) Roamio alone. TE4 opens the door to even more mischief, IMO.
Besides, crappy Xfinity recorded 720p “HD” content looks better on the smaller bedroom set. We stream more in the Family Room. Win-win.
TiVo+ ads not in my guide this morning 21.9.6.v7-USC-11-849