TiVo HD - Information for SA CableCard Users

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by TiVoPony, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

    7,066
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    Sep 21, 2004

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    The title of the thread specifically mentions SA cards and the issues posted in this forum almost all exclusively deal with macroblocking. CableCard authorization issues are the fault of the cable company, not TiVo.
     
  2. Tallguy001

    Tallguy001 Member

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    Sep 5, 2003
    Milwaukee, WI
    Great news. Thanks for the hard work.
     
  3. thewebgal

    thewebgal MacAphile AV geek

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    Aug 10, 2007
    DC 'burbs
    Yep - we have the Pixel problem with SA cards on Cox in Fairfax, VA.
    Thanks VERY much for all you folks are doing to sort this out.
    We've already taken a couple financial hits to go with TIVOHD instead of the Cox DVR - and love the TIVO features and user friendly nature of the system. Online Scheduling - what a concept!

    Your excellent customer service is now another reason I'm glad we went with TIVOHD instead of a CoxBox.

    Good luck!
     
  4. Chimpware

    Chimpware New Member

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    Jan 30, 2002
    You seem dying to engage me in debate at every turn, or have a very strong need to have the last word.

    Might I remind you this is not actually fixed yet, we had a thread already with a "fix" that did not work for many of us using SA Scards if you remember.

    I am going to toss this at the end so you can have the last word:

     
  5. d_anders

    d_anders Sr Legacy Member

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    Twin Cities...

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    Squeeky wheels help focus attention on needed fixes. Squeeky wheels are painful to listen too, and sometimes not always the right ones to grease right away...but again necessary sometimes to focus attention.

    Some prefer a more collaborative approach to fixing and addressing the issue, but that said Chimpware is our squeeky wheel. Sometimes painful, but if his posts have at all helped with ramping up the priority on this fix, then his method was successful.

    I personally think there are better ways to address a problem (otherwise you can be asked to leave), but in the end we all want a desirable result. This is a public forum, and there are going to be different voices.

    In a closed beta testing, there are norms for behaviour and working through issues, but since we all got placed into this very open, public, and chaotic path, we can't be overly critical with each other of how we're communicating and coming to a solution.

    It's up to TiVo to provide a better means of communications to address these types of problems better in the future. Whatever means TiVo has to beta test new equipment, this has obviously been lesson's learned scenario. I'm sure that they will improve their beta testing with the series 3 cable card products and make some changes with their approach. Obviously, whatever occured was not done fully and has resulted in a full on public beta testing.
     
  6. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    all true, but I am sure TiVo has been focused on this issue before the first posts in this forum appeared. Feedback on specifics, such as SA card troubles in this last round are more the value obtained here.
     
  7. d_anders

    d_anders Sr Legacy Member

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    Oct 12, 2000
    Twin Cities...
    Agreed, but they certainly didn't provide a communications mechanism until as of late.

    "We're aware of the issue and we're addressing it" isn't enough to channel and focus a very public discussion....they had an opportunity, but didn't take it, so they left it all open and ripe for all types of behavior.

    You know what I do with very vocal and passionate people like Chimpware where I work...who are complaining about specific problems but I don't like their behavior? I get them to be part of the solution.

    TiVo made some calls about releasing these boxes when they did...they needed to have a communications and mitigation plan in place to handle a public beta...even if it's one they didn't plan on having...With a very passionate and engaged customer base they need too.
     
  8. Chimpware

    Chimpware New Member

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    Funny you should say that I would have been happy to work on the issue with Tivo, and even offered to many times during my discussion with CSRs. I would even be willing to let them test the beta on my 2 Tivo HDs and provide feedback if they are interested.

    If you read my posts in total (a lot I know) I tried everything suggested by everyone including Tivo CSRs, Cablevision Techs. as well as people on this board.
     
  9. melh12345

    melh12345 New Member

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    Just for the record, when my second SA cablecard would not authorize, Tivo replaced the box, and the very same cablecards worked just fine.
    Sadly, even after the cards were authorized, the pixelation and sound dropout occurred at least once a minute and the Tivo HD was pretty much unwatchable. Tivo offered level 2 support within 72 hours, but that seemed like a long time to me.
     
  10. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    In order to authorize them on the new box you had to give the cable company new data and host ids. Chances are the box was just authorized incorrectly to begin with. It is doubtful the issue was really the box despite what customer service may have told you.
     
  11. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    I would also like full info but TiVo has to vet what it says publicly and any real details would delve into proprietary knowledge of how a TiVo DVR works so it seems that the message that started this thread was fairly specific and gave a full account including when to expect the fix.

    Yep. I take notes that include what parts of the design I would include the person on for next time. nothing worse than a focus group that says "whatever" Now in this specific case though, chimpware would be one data point in a situation that could have multiple problem points. Also he is a public resource and thus TiVo would have to tread carefully for the same reasons I listed above. if Chimpware stays with TiVo products then hopefully he fills out the beta application at www.tivo.com :)


    I would also point out that TiVo has been active in these forums in the past for other issues as well. Of course "active enough" is a matter of individual perspective. YMMV
     
  12. TiVotion

    TiVotion Early Adoptersaurus

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    Tampa, FL
    In the real world, you can beta test products until you're blue in the face. Regardless of how much observation and feedback you get in a limited, controlled environment, you're not going to be able to account for everything.

    But let's be realistic. None of us can quantify how much testing TiVo does with a product - not with whom, not under what circumstances, and not for how long. None of us know; only TiVo knows. But rest assured, and this is from my own personal experience with the product: TiVo is not about to let issues with the product go unresolved. The Series 3 and the THD represent TiVo's newest generation of equipment, and this equipment is the new face of the company. For that reason alone TiVo is going to focus all efforts to ensuring the products works reliably under as conditions as possible. They'd be foolish not to, and TiVo has a reputation for listening and responding. How many other products do you own where you actually SEE ranking members of the company listening, and responding? Try that with your GE Microwave oven.

    Again, I'm not saying this to be a cheerleader for the company. I'm just saying this because I've seen it over the course of nearly 5 years using the product. I'd never invest new money in TiVo hardware if I didn't have this level of confidence in it.

    I respect anyone who is concerned about the issues and I don't expect everyone to have the same confidence as me. That's ok. I'm just hoping that some of you will feel better about your situations reading this and perhaps not worry as much. Even though these issues are important to folks, and rightfully so, this isn't the massively detremental, crippling problem some people are making it out to be. Within a couple of weeks, barring any specific issues that people might have with equipment, signal levels, etc. within their homes, most people will be "fixed" and all of this debate will soon be forgotten.

    Faith, people. Faith. :)
     
  13. JacksTiVo

    JacksTiVo TiVo User since 2001

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    Jan 7, 2006
    New Jersey
    Thanks Pony. I have delayed purchasing an HD given the issues with the SA cards which I would have to use. I believe that the TCF has two important functions (among many others). It gives direct feedback to TiVo engineers on product issues and it helps others who are not inclined to be early adapters of new technology a chance to monitor progress in eliminating bugs before their purchase.

    A possible lesson for the TiVo developers: Beta testing should include users located in cable service provider areas that use both Motorola and Scientific-Atlantic cable cards. Since most cable providers require their technicians to install the cable cards was TiVo concerned that word of the prototype HD would leak out?
     
  14. jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Denver area
    How could I not remember? You reminded us about 50 times. :)

    And the previous fix never claimed to specifically address the SA problems. According to TivoPony, this one does.

    You want to call me a "fanboy" for advocating that people have faith that Tivo would address this, based on past history? Fine. I've been with Tivo quite a few years now, through multiple releases on multiple platforms and base my comments on that experience.

    You want to believe that the volume of your posts on this issue influenced Tivo in any way? You can do that too.

    I'm still convinced, based on the information you have previously provided, that in addition to whatever the SA related code issues are, you have a source signal problem that makes matters worse. You don't seem open to that possibility, but would rather put all pixelization issues in Tivo's lap.
     
  15. TiVotion

    TiVotion Early Adoptersaurus

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    Tampa, FL
    I agree. I think if anything, perhaps these units are sensitive to certain conditions. I also strongly believe that in some cases, it's not a driver/software issue entirely, but other variables are influencing the problem. What you have here is reasonably complicated piece of electronics that isn't always going to play the same in every single household. Unfortunately, TiVo will take the lion's share of the blame regardless, whether they deserve it or not.

    I sympathize with Chimpware's situation, seriously I do. People are frustrated. Between the cost of the box and the subscription it's a lot of money to let "ride".

    The more people who report the issue and provide detail about their exact setup, the easier it will be for TiVo to recreate the issue in their testing areas. IMO, you need to believe Pony when he says they are making headway. I've been around here long enough to know that the man speaks with responsibility. He won't confirm something unless he's reasonably confident about it (and hey, I wouldn't either) - so if the guy says they are working on it and they see a resolution, I'd probably believe him.
     
  16. Chimpware

    Chimpware New Member

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    Jan 30, 2002

    Still the Fanboy signal issue theory huh? It is really tiresome debating you on this forum and part of the reason some of my posts seem redundant is having to repost the same information in response to yet another "genius" claiming my issue is signal related.

    I had Cablevision here 3 times, they checked the signal everywhere, no problems, all within range (not just strength, all other parameters listed in separate post). Just in case redid all the connections, including inside wall outlets. Disconnected the 1 splitter I had and went directly to Tivo HD. Ran a dry line from the road in through my front door to the Tivo. Ran a dry line from across the street just to check further. All with no affect on the pixelation. I have 93+ on mist channels and the lowest I have is 87 (rarely but to be fair I will report it). Fluctuation is almost 0. I also have an 8300HD sitting right next to the Tivo HD and it has never had any pixelation. All in all 12 hours of signal troubleshooting without finding anything.

    Sorry, but not signal related. :D
     
  17. chicodoggy

    chicodoggy New Member

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    Jul 30, 2007
    Gilbert, AZ
    Will tivo2go ever be opened up for the tivo hd and if so, when?
     
  18. yunlin12

    yunlin12 Tivonation Citizen

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    Mar 14, 2003
    San Jose, CA
    I vote for Chimpware to get the #1 spot on the new priority list when it's available.

    Even better, make him a double secret beta tester on the new version. Since Chimpware is such a vocal customer, for better or for worse, and he's 30 day return date is looming, it seems that it can't hurt to try.
     
  19. jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Apr 15, 2004
    Denver area
    If you would read all the words, I'm not saying all your problem is signal related, just that it's more likely than not that some of it is. And I don't claim to be a "genius"; just someone who went through a very similar situation as you have.

    And all of that could be meaningless. If you have a clean signal close to 0 dBmv, then you should be seeing 100 on the Tivo signal strength meter (which is fairly useless anyway, when it comes to diagnosing signal related issues). The 8300 can run with a hot signal, w/o issue. The Tivo S3 (and I presume the THD) are far more sensitive to quality signals. If they didn't take measurements at the Tivo input for the various combinations, then they didn't do a complete job.
    Maybe not. But I thought the same thing as you did when I first got my S3 and saw many of the same things you reported. I was convinced it was a Tivo issue and I couldn't have a cable signal problem, especially since I saw no problems on a Comcast DVR, but only on the S3.

    I was wrong and it took multiple visits by Comcast senior techs before they figured out it was their problem, not Tivos.
     
  20. RoyK

    RoyK New Member

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    Oct 22, 2004
    SW VA
    So you're saying that the S3 (and maybe the HD?) has poor dynamic range, the cable company's DVR doesn't, and that's the cable company's problem? Or do I misunderstand you?
     

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