Tivo Following AOL

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The DVR is highly subsidized by the overpriced cabel service you are already receiving. Comcat is making enough on the cable service that they can lower the proce of the DVR. TiVo does not have that luxury. If they charged what you wanted to pay they would have been out of business years ago.

 

So you decided to make the jump to the Dish DVR - since you decided that was the best course of action for you, obviously that's the best choice for EVERYONE else too.

Either you're that insecure about your decision, or you decided to short yourself some Tivo stock since they're obviously on the way out due to the loss of your business. Either way, you're wrong. Tivo is an awesome solution for some folks. The popularity of the new THD, and the wave of posters that are ditching the dish to go back to cable and the THD shows that this battle isn't over yet.

Like I said in the first thread you started on this, hopefully the courts don't decide to turn your shiny new DVR powered by stolen IP off anytime soon!!!

 

We are watching the bumpy ride for many companies to all digital. TiVo has put out a viable product in the TiVo HD for that market and, as always, needs to keep innovating that line to finally make the complete transition to digital. The S3 was just a first step to put out a high end HD product. Unlike AOL TiVo got the messgae quickly that its current main product, the analog S2, was not going to keep them in sales. Many more than expected mainstream consumers were making the leap to HD. I think it a significant chnage from the TiVo of old that they got the mainstream priced TiVo HD out the door so quickly.

Deals are being made at a pretty fast pace between TiVo and 3rd parties for UNBOX and TiVocast content. Selling advertising is picking up for TiVo. These are all not AOL like qualities. I see no demise for TiVo in the forseeable future

 

This is really not true at all. AOL did fail because of their pricing, exactly like Tivo. Tell me, if AOL died because it was not innovative, then tell me exactly what new innovations were made by AOL competitors. Give me the list.
The fact is that the OP's analogy was really spot-on. Tivo IS the new AOL. Actually, the analogy is a little wrong - Tivo has never been profitable.

 

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People would have paid AOL their marked up prices if there was any value to it. AOL's product was garbage.

Are you telling me that there is no difference between a Tivo DVR and a Comcast or Dish or DTV DVR? Do we need to hash this out? Of course time will tell if enough people feel that the services Tivo provides will be enough to draw customers from the generics.

How long did it take Apple to find its profitable niche? Quite a long time, and they still fail at some of their innovative products, like the Apple TV.

I think people fail to realize how the digital download biz and the internet to TV biz is going to drive the market in a few years.

 

IMHO, The first product to allow upload and download of content seemlessly from a pc, internet and TV will be victor. Kinda like Tivo + UNBOX + Apple TV + Windows Media Extender. Each product mentioned is good.. but a combo box will rule the world. The first one to reach this goal for the average user will crush the rest.

THX crowd means diddly when compared to Youtube on TV crowd. Content is king.. the rest is just gravy IMHO.

 

I don't think it's just brand recognition. (As far as iPod vs DVR).

With iPod vs MP3 player, you still have to go to the store and purchase it. With the cableco DVR vs TiVo, the cable co can push their own DVR - and say it's just like having a TiVo w/o having to prove it.

TiVo (and other co) want people to to do the same for their DVR purchases. Right now, the cable/sat companies can push their own DVR. I view that as monopolistic .

The fact that the cable co DVR is being subsidized by every cable customer (Tivo users and ppl with no DVR) is wrong as well.

I think both are unfair and should be illegal practices...

RCN just dropped off installed my brother's 4th DVR in the last year. It's the new Moto DCH3416, so I guess RCN is complying to the new Cablecard rules. Now all they need to do is to either charge extra for the cablecard...or remove (at least one of) the cable card charges on my S3

 

Those of you who are repeating the tired old story of "cable companies subsidizing DVRs" are living in the past. That's last year's news.

Comcast in Oregon will install as many DVRs as you want. You want 5? No problem? They wouldn't do this if the box was subsidized.

Do the math. Between the $12/mo DVR rental fee and the $7/mo mirroring fee, there's plenty of cash flow available for Comcast to make money on the crappy boxes they hand out.

 

good point - these DVRs are not made to sell for 300$ - they are made for the cable company to hand out and charge a monthly fee. So sure some of the R&D costs and overhead of acquiring the boxes is wrapped up in the monthly base cable bill - but the 19$ a month in this example for a second DVR and HD - plus the factored in revenue of PPV/VOD these boxes generate cover the cost of the box and allow for profit.

Still the basic difference remains
- cable company can send a fat bill every month and the regulations on how they break out that bill are not very exacting.

- TiVo has nothing but DVR and service in its bill so it is very transparent what TiVo charges

 

Then why does Comcast want $60/month from me to get a DVR?

Recently someone posted in avsforum about getting a second DVR from Comcast. Comcast said no, unless the programming subscription is upgraded to a higher tier for $20/month more.

 

Meaning, it was just the same as everyone else's internet - meaning people went strictly for the lowest price. Just like with DVRs.

Pretty much. Yes.
Except for Tivo2go, that is. It's a really good idea, although I wish they'd hire a competent coder who is 1/10 as good as the open source Galleon programmer. That kinda cracks me up.

 

If you're only paying $17/month to Comcast, then you're hardly getting any channels from them. In that case, what would you need a DVR to record anyway? I assume most of the people in this discussion have a large number of channels. I assume that whoever provides them with these channels would provide a DVR for less than $60 extra per month.

 

The Man does talk the truth

I am in total agreeance with this statement. I love Tivo, I also love my Directv. Does this make me a bad person?

 

Cable company DVRs would never be open to 3rd party apps like TiVo is.
Cable company DVRs can not get expanded drives like TiVo can.
Cable Company DVRs will not have TiVoCast and all the other HME apps supplied without having to use a PC.
Cable Company DVRs have more intrusive advertising
Cable Company DVRs are of extremely varying quality and you are stuck with what they give you

that was off the top of my head. I definitely see a difference. Now just a short while ago the easy comeback was all true but 2 tuners and HD are the core pieces and TiVo only had that in expensive DVR or not at all.

That has just changed and TiVo can get back to competing on its differnces that set it apart from generic Cable company DVRs. The current state of affairs at TiVo are the result of lacking those core pieces in a mainstrean price. Like I said before in this thread - sometime next year is when to see how the TiVo HD is doing and what the future looks like.

For now you guys are arguing the past

 

WOW! So you've used the Comcast DVR, and other than Tivo2Go, its right there with Tivo???????

How is their Swivel Search feature? How reliable is their "season pass" set-up? Do you use Comcast' remote scheduling feature a lot? Perhaps you can tell me about the quality of DTV's Dual Live Buffer. Do you like big ad banners in your guide?

 

Lack of education and convenience. Even if prices were the same people that don't know about TiVo would go with the cable companies DVR because you don't have to go out of your way to get it. It's not so much that the majority of people want TiVo features but get the alternative as it is that the majority don't know about TiVo features. Price is a factor and people who don't know the difference between the two will assume that a dvr is a dvr but I can list a ton of stuff that a TiVo can do that the cable companies DVR cant do. I use almost all these features so saying that they charge more for the same thing or for features that nobody uses is not true, I'm atleast one example of this not being true and im sure there are plenty more. Greater market share does not always equal a better product. Microsoft has like 95% of the OS market. does this make windows better than osx? Last time I checked no.

 

I watch the 4 major networks + PBS. Go take a look at the top 25 most recorded shows at TiVo's website and see how many of them are shown on the 4 major networks. Many people pay for hundreds of channels, but how many channels do they really watch?

 

Ill admit with S2 competing against the Cable company DVR was similar to AOL since while the Tivo had a better GUI the cable company had better technology and price. But with the THD and S3 Tivo has the better technolgy, gui, and feature set. The only thing the CC has going for it is price but in the long run people will pay more for a better product.

 

As has been posted before by others - even in this very thread - most folks don't care about these features. Swivel Search? Wouldn't pay a nickel for it. Remote scheduling? Not worth a dollar. Live Buffer? Snore.
Ad banners? Ok - valid point. I hate ads in my menus.
I think this market is ripe for a COMPETENT corporation to come in with a good box, and drive Tivo into the well-deserved ground.