Tivo Following AOL

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by markabtex, Sep 19, 2007.

  1. markabtex

    markabtex Experienced DVR User

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    Let me say first of all that I really like my Tivo and I think it's a great product. The problem I have with Tivo that it is not competitive with other options in the DVR market today. Failure to be competitive in a high tech, high demand market is what killed AOL. I'm sure everyone remembers when AOL was the industry leader in internet access. It was so popular because it was easy to use and it had a "cute" interface ( sound familiar?). AOL got so popular that they figured they could raise their subscription fees to over $23 a month for dial up access. They figured wrong. What they didn't take into consideration was that the average high tech consumer was not about to pay twice as much for something they could get elsewhere just because it was "cute". Tivo seems to have the same mentality. When cable and satellite companies are giving away their DVRs and their monthly fees are less than half of Tivo's, the choice for the consumer is simple. Sure Tivo has a dedicated following, but when it comes to the bottom line, people are going to choose the best value for their money. As for myself, I just got a satellite HD dual tuner DVR with 55 Hour HD and 350 Hour SD capacity that cost me nothing and my monthly fee is only $5.99. Compare this to a Tivo HD DVR that will cost at least $300 up front and $13 a month in fees. I'm not totally abandoning Tivo since my Toshiba RS-TX20 comes with Tivo Basic for free, but I'm not willing to pay $13 a month for the Tivo Plus service. To me, it's just not that cute.
     
  2. Einselen

    Einselen ɹǝsn pǝɹǝʇsıƃǝɹ

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    AOL did not fail because it was not competitive failed because it was no longer innovative. Tivo so far I believe has been innovative (only THX certified DVR) in my opinion.
     
  3. TiVo Mel

    TiVo Mel King of TiVo Nation

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    Totally agree with Einselen. Tivo is light years ahead of all other DVR's. It's the only DVR that allows you to download movies from Amazon and it's Wishlist is second to none.

    Any predictions of Tivo's demise are premature at best. :)
     
  4. HiDefGator

    HiDefGator New Member

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    If only there was a larger demand for such a product.
     
  5. jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

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    TivoHD is over $75 a month cheaper than the Comcastic solution. And thats after the monthly Tivo charge and increased cost of my internet service.

    I simply did not watch $93 a month worth of Discovery channel and foodtv. Comcast raised the rates for the third time THIS YEAR here in Houston this month and enough was enough. After nearly 20 years they have left the building. Tivo's timing with the new THD could not have been more appropriate. At $899 I likely never would have come back to tivo on an S3.
     
  6. markabtex

    markabtex Experienced DVR User

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    "High End" users will care about "THX Certification" and the ability to download movies from Amazon. But most consumers are not "High End". Most consumers just want the basic ability to record programs and watch them later. They know they can always rent DVDs from Netflix or Blockbuster, which is probably a better option since when you download movies from Amazon to your Tivo, you don't get to see the extra features that are on the DVD.
     
  7. riddick21

    riddick21 New Member

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    Yeah but TiVo is still offering features that the competition doesn't. All AOL does is package stuff you can already get for free + their internet service is slow. They failed because they had a worse product than the competition not because they charged more. TiVo has a better product than the competition with more features so they are entitled to more money. Whether you specifically use these extra features or not is irrelevant. You really can't speak for the majority of people because you couldn't possibly know what the majority wants. Being able to download a movie instantly is very innovative and once amazon works out the kinks it will be a major selling point. I download a 99 cent rental almost every week so the movie download feature is actually very important to me.
     
  8. markabtex

    markabtex Experienced DVR User

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    Wow, riddick21 must own Tivo stock! As I said before, I like my Tivo, but I just don't think it is competitive. Saying that "Whether you specifically use these extra features or not is irrelevant" is ridiculous. Of course it's relevant to pay more for features you don't use. Also, although I can't speak for the majority of people, I do know that basic functionality is very important to most people.
     
  9. Sapphire

    Sapphire Xtal substance

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    That may appeal to savvy Einselen, but to the average consumer they couldn't care less about THX certification.

    The average consumer cares primarily about cost, and secondly about reliability and ease of use. Everything else is gravy.

    Cable DVRs are killing TiVo mostly because they have NO upfront cost and the cable co will replace them for free if they fail, and there are NO CableCARD issues to deal with.

    I have a series 3 and I have also had DirecTiVos. I like them a lot, but honestly the initial outlay and sub fee made me think twice about the S3. I'm glad I got it though.

    So the comparison to AOL is entirely valid.

    AOL had something that few others had - i.e. easy to use online computing.

    TiVo had something that few others had - i.e. a hard disk DVR.

    Along came ISPs, the world wide web and easy to use internet browsers. Along with the web came all of the content that AOL made you pay for - for free.

    Similarly with DVRs, along came the cableco DVRs that had no upfront cost in addition to the monthly fee, one bill, one service provider to go to and no phone line/net connection required.

    It's really not a hard decision for the average consumer, especially when they feel they're getting a "TiVo like" device and some even go as far as to call it "TiVo."

    I love TiVo and I've been a TiVotee since 2002 but the truth is the truth.
     
  10. Sapphire

    Sapphire Xtal substance

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    Apple computer had the Newton, which was a very innovative product, light years ahead of the competition. Tell me, did they dominate the PDA market? What happened to the newton?
     
  11. c3

    c3 TiVoholic

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    The $5.99 rate is heavily subsidized by other fees, and so is the "free" DVR.
     
  12. kmill14

    kmill14 New Member

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    Apparently there are a million people willing to pay 500 bucks for a phone that allows you to listen to music and watch shows. Oh wait, other phones have that for much cheaper. But its not Apple.

    Older generations of TV watchers may never buy a Tivo box, but do you think the 20-30 something crowd that just bought that new HD TV isn't smart enough to figure out what the best DVR products are and what they CAN do?

    Tivo = AOL...thats hilarious. The cable and SAT DVRs = AOL because like AOL, they appeal to the uneducated. Over time, people get educated and get the best products for what they want.

    Since movie and TV downloads are not going away, I seriously doubt Tivo will. Oh, and Apple is failing with its Apple TV box. Do you honestly think that this entire Amazon Tivo relationship has not been a big test to gauge the market?
     
  13. markabtex

    markabtex Experienced DVR User

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    I think what c3 meant to say was "The $5.99 rate is heavily subsidized by other fees". I would have to disagree with that statement. I just switched from cable to satellite. I was paying over $53 a month for extended basic which included only 65 channels and $13 a month for Tivo service for a total of $66. I'm now paying $71 a month for 250 channels on 4 TVs with DVR fees and taxes included. I'm getting 185 channels more for only $5 more a month. If the DVR fee is heavily subsidized by other fees, I'm not seeing it.
     
  14. CheezWiz

    CheezWiz ReplayTV->S3 Tivo

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    Mark,
    This topic has been hashed out here over and over. If you are really interested you can look for my posts on the subject where I outlined the cost of what you call a "Give-Away" DVR from the cable company. In a nutshell, there is no "Giveaway" and for me, Tivo is cheaper! Same for most people I have conversed with.
     
  15. c3

    c3 TiVoholic

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    How many DVRs can you rent at $5.99/month? 1? 10? 100?

    I currently pay Comcast about $17/month. If I want a DVR from Comcast, I have to pay $60 more per month. What happened to the $12/month DVR fee listed on the price sheet?
     
  16. riddick21

    riddick21 New Member

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    I meant whether YOU (as in markabtex) use these functions is irrelevant as a measure of what the majority of people want in their Home Media Device. Lets face it, TiVo has become more than just a DVR and that is why they can still compete with the cable companies "free" DVR.

    I'm not really big into stocks I just think TiVo is a good company with a great product. This may not always be the case but as for right now they still make the best DVR on the market even if it does cost a little more. Nice things usually cost more money. Ill leave it to someone else to deliver the car analogy.
     
  17. Phantom Gremlin

    Phantom Gremlin Active Member

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    Why does everyone criticize THX certification? There are probably dozens of people (maybe even hundreds of people) in this great country to whom this certification is important.

    But I'm not one of them. :)
     
  18. samo

    samo New Member

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    How do you define "majority"? There are about 15 million HD capable DVRs installed (counting both cable and satellite). Out of 15 million less than 50,000 are S3 and HD TiVo's. You mean to tell me that majority of people want TiVo features, but get alternative anyhow? Do you have an answer why they dont buy TiVo? Perhaps price has something to do with it?
     
  19. JJ

    JJ TiVoPlantation Owner

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    is no longer like what they had back in the Series1 days. One box that was useful for antenna/cable/satellite was compelling.

    One Series3 box appealing to 1% of the market (THX), cable only software solutions (maybe someday), no comments regarding S3/THD SDV or QAM mapping possibilities and absolutely no satellite solution on the horizon makes TiVo less signifigant every day...

    Most users are satisfied with non-TiVo feature sets. DirecTV is aggresively cutting into the TiVo subscriber base every day. While the obvious HR10-250 migration continues as users trade TiVo for HD channels and a two year commitment. Once the HR10-250 models are gone DirecTV will start attempting to convert all the standard definition boxes to HR20s to 'purify' thier system for greater profits. After having nine SD/HD TiVos for years, Vista Media Center and Dish VIP622s have wiped out all but one lonely grandfathered Series1. Suggestions and Season Passes could not win out over better interfaces and competitive pricing...
     
  20. Sapphire

    Sapphire Xtal substance

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    Funny as hell!

    TiVo is no Apple.

    Apple can sell an empty iBox with the Apple logo and people will buy it.

    Apple has the brand recognition. TiVo has what? TiVo has the brand recognition, sure, but many people don't know a genuine TiVo from another DVR. However, people know an iPod from a competitor's MP3 player.
     

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