Tivo filing to FCC re: S3 (and SDV)

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by dt_dc, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. petew

    petew Active Member

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    The simple solution to the problem would be for the FCC to require Cable Co STB's to use a cable card and be certified in the same way as Competitors equipment. Then at least TW and Cox couldn't implement anything that wasn't in the standard and available for Tivo to copy.

    I thought I'd read somewhere that this was going to happen, but I can't find a reference now so I may have been imagining it.
     
  2. kjnorman

    kjnorman Enjoying being a Dad

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    What I do not understand is if CC2.0 is so far off, how can Samsung announce a TV that is fully OCAP compliant and features a 2 way cablecard for VOD and interaction.

    From AVS

    So is the deal that 2 way cablecards exist, but that they are not CC2.0 compliant, rather they conform to OCAP (which I do not fully understand by the way) which is something else entirely?

    :confused:
     
  3. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    there was an FCC mandate for cable companies to use teh cable card standard in new STBs. The deadline has been pushed back from lobbying by cable cos. TiVo was opposing it until they got the Comcast deal and then TiVo went quiet on it.
    SInce cable card 2 is stalled in dispute who knows when


    BUT
    you imply a loophole in that they can use the cablecard BUT also have the STB do bidirectional stuff in whatever way they want which keeps them able to do things like Switched digital without needing anything in the standard about it unless they are mandated to.
     
  4. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    It was supose to happen this year, but the cable companies got an extension to next June because CableCARD 2.0 is not finished yet. And even if CableCARD 2.0 does get finished by then, they'll probably get another extension to give them time to impliment it. So I wouldn't expect this to happen until at least 2008.

    Dan
     
  5. classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

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    The deal is the hardware part of the spec is fixed, software for a "universal" bi-directional system is in the air.

    Apparently the sotware side of the set is fixed for that one provider, or set up the way the cablecos want it.
     
  6. ah30k

    ah30k Well-Known Member

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    I think the way the MSOs were getting around this was to force language into the spec that said if you wanted bi-directional cable card you needed to fully support OCAP which means the MSO can overrride the user interface application. Clearly this would apply to both STBs and any retail CE equipment. Same certification right? CEs have to yield control over to the MSOs just like the MSOs have to yield control over to the MSOs... Oh wait... Seems to be a better deal for the MSOs that are yielding control right back to themselves.
     
  7. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    The OCAP spec has been finished for a while, so a device with CableCARD 2.0 compliant hardware and OCAP is possible. Although currently no cable providers that I know of have deployed OCAP, so this will only be useful if the MSOs start deploying OCAP.

    As for what OCAP is... It's basically a stadard way for the cable company to load their guide software onto your hardware. That way you can use their interactive serivices on 3rd party hardware. Unfortunately it's an all or nothing approach, so those devices are forced to use whatever UI the cable company chooses to access those feature. (this is why it's not good for devices like a TiVo)

    Dan
     
  8. BillyT2002

    BillyT2002 Crush!Kill!Destroy!

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    Couldn't TIVO have provided an OCAP interface within the S3 that let the cable companies download their own guide software into the unit and also kept the TIVO guide available in the unit separately? This might have been the best of both worlds as it might have opened up VOD and other services on the S3? Or, am I not seeing the picture clearly?

    I guess what I'm asking is couldn't TIVO have made a hybrid S3 which let the cable company put their UI on it and also (even in some underhanded way) allowed the S3 to use the standard TIVO UI on the same box?
     
  9. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Yes that would be possible. But the CableCARD 2.0 hardware spec didn't get issued until this April, so if they waited for that the S3 would probably be another year away. They had to do something, so they took advantage of what was available at the time.

    Dan
     
  10. greenstork

    greenstork New Member

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    So OCAP might be cool one day, if the cable co's can get their head out of their a$$es long enough to realize that they have a lousy UI, and to eventually model it after TiVo. It sounds as if TiVo will never make use of OCAP/DCAS because they would then be locked in to the cable co's UI, guides, etc.

    It's a shame really, TiVo has the software, hardware, and brand, but the cable co's are holding all of the cards (content). TiVo is, in essence, beholden to them. If they don't like CC 2.0, and instead favor OCAP, it's just tough luck TiVo. There's got to be enough money and brand loyalty there for everyone, sheesh.
     
  11. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    The cable industry is pushing hard for OCAP, but I think ultimately they're going to lose. Forcing all CableCARD 2.0 devices to have the same UI creates no competitive edge in the market and thus gives CE manufacturers no incentive to develope CableCARD 2.0 devices. OCAP is great for TV manufacturers who just want an easy way to add a guide to their system. But for companies that make inovative products like TiVo it's useless and would completely kill any advantage they have. (why would anyone buy a TiVo when they could rent a DVR from the cable company that does EXACTLY the same thing?)

    Dan
     
  12. mahk

    mahk New Member

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    Is it possible for Tivo to release the S3 with CC 1.5 support and then once the CC 2.0 spec is finalized, do some kind of software update that makes the S3 compliant?

    Or is it more of a hardware thing?
     
  13. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    It's a hardware thing.

    Dan
     
  14. BillyT2002

    BillyT2002 Crush!Kill!Destroy!

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    It's always possible that the wait for a TIVO series 4 might not be as long as the wait between the TIVO series 2 and the TIVO series 3. Next year, perhaps TIVO will issue the a TIVO series 3.5 (OCAP compatible) model - who knows? It's also possible that the FCC will get involved, find some nerve and dictate to the cable companies that they can only use SDV for VOD services and what not and that all broadcast and cable channels must not use SDV. Then again maybe Jesus will return on clouds of glory long before any of that can occur as well. Time will tell... ;)
     
  15. jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Given the number of times you answer this question, an FAQ may be in order.
     
  16. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    So what is Microsoft's stance on this whole SDV issue? For a long time they have touted Windows Vista will be CableLabs certified for CableCard but doesn't sound like CC 2.0 devices will be available for a long time so won't the SDV issue affect them as well? They certainly have a lot more might to throw at the FCC than Tivo does on this issue. Granted in PCs it would probably be much easier to add the necessary hardware/software for 2-way compared to the S3 but still... Then again given Microsoft's anti-competitive history it would be 2-faced for them to call out the cable industry for doing the same.
     
  17. DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS Active Member

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    Actually, that would just be business.
     
  18. PAP

    PAP Member

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    All this is too overtechnical for me to get my hands around, but from what I'm reading I'm understanding that basically the S3 is outdated before it's even released??

    Basically for those of us who want real tivo interface but can't get OTA signal and therefore need either cable or sat. we're totally screwed.

    Do I have that about right?
     
  19. shady

    shady Previously European TCF Club

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    No
     
  20. megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    No, not even close.
     

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