Tivo dropping features?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by DJinNJ, May 11, 2018.

  1. DJinNJ

    DJinNJ New Member

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    The following new term or condition has been added to the revised user agreement going into effect on May 18, 2018:

    TiVo reserves the right to discontinue previously offered features or functionality at its sole discretion and without prior notice.​

    So what's about to be dropped?
     
    Mikeguy likes this.
  2. spiderpumpkin

    spiderpumpkin Say no to Hydra!

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    Probably means they will eventually force upgrade everyone to Hydra.
     
  3. lafos

    lafos Well-Known Member

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    They could do a lot of things, but the first that comes to mind is dropping guide data for older S2 or S3 TiVos. They've already dropped S1 TiVos and TiVo desktop.
     
  4. gthassell

    gthassell Active Member

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    The more omninous quote to me is: "With a new All-In Plan subscription, (a) you pay just once (rather than monthly, annually, or in some other frequency) for your TiVo service subscription, (b) your subscription lasts for as long as your TiVo device is operational (or until TiVo discontinues support for your device, whichever comes first), and (c) you cannot transfer your subscription to another TiVo device (except in cases of warranty repair or replacement under applicable warranty terms)."
     
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  5. gthassell

    gthassell Active Member

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    They also said: "When using our products and services, you may not do any of the following (except to the extent permitted by applicable law): (1) modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or otherwise attempt to derive the source code, structure, design, or method of operation of software that we provide to you, (2) modify, disassemble, or otherwise tamper with any TiVo hardware, (3) disguise the place of your residence or the location of your use, (4) attempt to circumvent technological measures or gain unauthorized access through hacking, password mining or any other means, or (5) modify, distribute, sell, or show to the public, for compensation or otherwise, any program recorded using any TiVo product."

    Luckily, recent rulings / statements from the FTC seem to indicate that statement #2 above would not be a valid reason for TiVo to discontinue service on your device / account, as long as the end user was not attempting to circumvent copyright / protection. If it's to handle repair, parts replacement, etc., then it SHOULD be OK, although I would not be surprised to see TiVo (Rovi) try to claim that it was a valid reason to shut off service on an older box that had a power supply or hard drive replaced....

    Here's the FTC quote:

    The Federal Trade Commission staff has sent warning letters to six major companies that market and sell automobiles, cellular devices, and video gaming systems in the United States.

    The letters warn that FTC staff has concerns about the companies’ statements that consumers must use specified parts or service providers to keep their warranties intact. Unless warrantors provide the parts or services for free or receive a waiver from the FTC, such statements generally are prohibited by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, a law that governs consumer product warranties. Similarly, such statements may be deceptive under the FTC Act.

    Each company used different language, but here are examples of questionable provisions:

    • The use of [company name] parts is required to keep your . . . manufacturer’s warranties and any extended warranties intact.
    • This warranty shall not apply if this product . . . is used with products not sold or licensed by [company name].
    • This warranty does not apply if this product . . . has had the warranty seal on the [product] altered, defaced, or removed.
    “Provisions that tie warranty coverage to the use of particular products or services harm both consumers who pay more for them as well as the small businesses who offer competing products and services,” said Thomas B. Pahl, Acting Director of the FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection.
     
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  6. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    I think that dropping the Guide for older boxes would go beyond what is permissible, and especially for Lifetime'd boxes--it effectively would make the boxes unusable for the majority of the original TiVo purposes.
    TiVo finally listened to its lawyers (or to posters such as me, lol) on this point, after almost 2 decades . . . . And, it's a bit scary for the users. :( Having said that, I don't know that this can change the terms of Lifetime for Lifetime'd boxes up 'til now.
     
  7. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    And yet we have another doom & gloom thread. Sigh. :)
     
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  8. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    I thought that TiVo always had a term like this? To avoid someone suing over, for example, the dropping of folder play with Hydra. But perhaps I'm mis-recalling.
    Potentially safe for now, as you point out; until the composition of the FTC changes (if it were to) . . . . :(
     
  9. daveak

    daveak Series 3 Novice

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    My OLED Lifetimed S3 has 2TB drive and a newer power supply. 10 years and going strong (With those changes), I would be rather upset if those changes caused me to be cutoff. I worry more about this platform being unsupported by TiVo and not having guide data, the box already has no real extra features anymore. I can't imagine TiVo will indefinitely support this box - Or my other for that matter. I have a lifetimed Premeire as well, fully stock. Eventually I will need a new box or two, I just hope a the non-TiVo hardware manufacturer does a decent job.
     
  10. gthassell

    gthassell Active Member

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    Trust me, I'm NOT a doom & gloomer, but I do like to be prepared should be there be an issue. While my units are both Bolts (and I do have a Roamio Pro I'm putting up for sale soon), I have to TiVo HDs I got for my mother. Just replaced the PSU in one of them, and the other's just died - and have a spare sitting on my workbench to swap out next time I visit her. But reading the wording in the updated terms makes me cautious.

    I had picked up a number of series 1s at Goodwill, etc. - before the cutoff, and while I had several that were accomodated, I did have 3 or 4 that I hadn't connected and became paperweights, since they were 'ineligible" for transfers. Don't get me wrong - I was still ahead overall since the ones that HAD connected more than made up for the difference, and a few pre-Jan 21 2000 units produced several amazing deals - including the "time travelling Roamio" I'll be selling shortly - with a Jan 1999 activation date ;)
     
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  11. stile99

    stile99 Well-Known Member

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    Call me doom or call me gloom (just don't call me late for dinner) but I suspect their lawyers whispered in their ear that they advertised MRV (and other features) quite heavily over the years, and dropping such features just for funsies wasn't the best idea. With this added language, they can now drop features just for funsies.
     
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  12. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    No argument. When the Sony DHG was killed off by Rovi, I had to make a decision. At first I went down the Funai route, but then my cable feed decided to get encrypted. So TiVo was the best road I could find. Now, if I was the nervous type, I would lose sleep over ATSC 3 or IPTV. Maybe TiVo will screw us, but it doesn't feel that way. I already live with lowering picture quality, increasing prices and less content I like. Perhaps I have reason to be optimistic since my cable feed is going the TiVo route. I don't live in a major market. TiVo isn't a toaster, so I have fun. I have all the streaming stuff, the latest internet and networking equipment, and I know not to worry about what I can't control. There are a whole lot of things to worry about. TiVo's change in ToS are just one more thing I won't worry about. :)

    That could all change tomorrow.
     
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  13. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly--and retire a TiVo Series without Lifetime'd people like me arguing a possible breach of Lifetime terms.
     
  14. schatham

    schatham Well-Known Member

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    Hydra is for cable company's. Tivo users are the beta testers. They are killing retail Tivo, that's what this is about. May not be soon but their setting the table.
     
  15. HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

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    Since it already happened for S1's? :)

    Scott
     
  16. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Except that, TiVo paid a form of compensation there.
     
  17. gigaquad

    gigaquad Tivo Image Master

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    I'd guess any transfers to and from computers are on the chopping block, ala hydra. I already said when that happens I'll be moving to a home-built box. I don't want to, but I have to large a library of shows and movies to cut off all transfer ability.
     
  18. tampa8

    tampa8 Official Tivo User

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    That was exactly my first thought when I read the changes. Doesn't mean it's soon but they are covering what they can so they can have an end date for support of retail units.
     
  19. rdrrepair

    rdrrepair Bill Knapp

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    Then what would our recourse be if we decided not to continue under these newer terms? If we purchased lifetime under the old terms wouldn't those terms apply? Would TiVo buy back our boxes and pay back the lifetime fees?

    It sounds like any update by TiVo could brick a box and if that's their intention then all's good? Discontinue support for an external drive, lose all shows as a result, all good because that was TiVo's desire.

    Perhaps by not agreeing TiVo won't update your box to newer software? So many scenarios...

    This comes out within a day of TiVo announcing that they're getting out of manufacturing their own boxes.

    Where's my tin hat? :eek:
     
  20. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    My big fear is they're going to drop TTG. The offical TiVo Desktop was discontinued a few years back, then they disabled push, then in the new UI they got rid of pull to TiVo feature and transferring between TiVo boxes. TTG could very well be next on the chopping block.
     

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