Tivo Bolt + Xbox One S HDMI Passthru

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by OmeneX, Aug 5, 2016.

  1. Aug 5, 2016 #1 of 47
    OmeneX

    OmeneX Member

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    Hey guys & gals just a bit of a heads up. So far when passing content via Tivo Bolt's HDMI to the new Xbox One S HDMI passthru it seems to only accept 1080p signals-- Then the Xbox One S upscales the video to 4K. Anyone thinking to use the Xbox's UI overlay & it's minor voice controls to command their TiVo should be aware of this. (FYI you can still voice command the TiVo without using the Passthru, but this has always been possible even with my old Xbox One) -- The UI overlay and greater app selection within a combined environment TiVo + Xbox under 4K is what I'm after.

    Anyways..

    After connecting the Tivo Bolt to the Xbox One S and you go to video settings on the Tivo, you can only select 1080p. TiVo Bolt says 4K 2160 is not supported as I found out today. This limit also applies for things like 4K Amazon Fire TV box, or Direct TV4K. I would assume the same for RoKu 4K and the rest.

    This story/issue is a bummer to be honest. :) After researching the Xbox One S alot this is a small gotcha that I didn't catch. It also seems others are also becoming aware of this limitation.

    On reddit for example.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/4vv90h/no_4k_passthrough_on_hdmi_in_xbox_one_s/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/4w07w7/xbox_one_s_4k_passthrough/

    Also, Xbox support and news sites don't list this 1080p limit on passthru as far as I can tell, and as far as my own experience so far has shown - It won't broadcast as a 4K input or accept a native 4K input on it's passthru port.

    http://news.xbox.com/2016/08/02/xbox-one-s-4k-hdr/

    https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/console/troubleshooting-4K-and-HDR-on-xbox-one-s

    You don't really have to read all that to confirm for yourself - but if you want and do read the links, maybe you'll spot something I and others haven't.

    Anyways - lets assume that there is a 1080p limit on the Xbox One S passthru. What are the guesses of the cause?

    Is the actual hardware port limited via software? NON HDCP 2.2? HDMI speeds?

    Possibly DRM or some type of data transfer security? If so is that DRM on the Xbox One S side or TiVo (or other cable box like DirectTV 4K)?

    Asking these questions because I'm considering now returning the Xbox One S for my money back.

    Yes the Xbox One S can do the apps in 4K that TiVo can. (Well some of them till updates happen) But I just don't like compromising my systems compatibility scheme - and having to use one device or another for various functions. Even if the Xbox One S 4K upscale is really good. (As has been reported) Kinda defeats my purpose of buying 4K stuff and HDCP 2.2 qualified products to begin with.

    Anyways I thought people should know if you already don't know. I do like the Xbox One S overall - but this small detail just puts a damper on my system plans.

    Thoughts?

    Prayers for a software update? From responsible party? If that's all it is, haha :(
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
    leswar likes this.
  2. Aug 6, 2016 #2 of 47
    foghorn2

    foghorn2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info, will not be buying the x1s after all
     
  3. Aug 6, 2016 #3 of 47
    BRiT wtfdotcom

    BRiT wtfdotcom Active Member

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    From the xbox forums, I have seen mixed reports about this. There are people who report no issues at all with 4K input and 4K output.

    It seems to come down to which cables they're using. Some others report to have no issues at all if you use the proper cables that are 4k rated. Some have had issues using 4K video and passing audio on the hdmi at the same time with the cables they were using, so they had to pass audio using an optical cable. This seemed to be more a limit of the plugin source device than the xbox one s.

    From the first redit thread linked:

    This seems to be dependent on which cable is used and/or which source device is used.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
  4. Aug 6, 2016 #4 of 47
    OmeneX

    OmeneX Member

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    Yea BRiT I've read a couple people who say using their Nvidia Shield will push 4K thru the passthru. I don't have a Shield so I have no way to test this -- however I can say that I'm using the HDMI cable that came with the Xbox S to connect my TiVo to the Xbox S passthru.

    Which means it's curious if the actual cable they provided isn't passing thru 4K from the TiVo... what gives?

    At the same time the Xbox has no issue displaying 4K content on it's own app platform using, say, the Netflix App. With the HDMI cable I've used for 4K content on the TiVo previously.

    (So we know it works)

    And of course the TiVo will still show 4K content if I plug it directly to the TV using any of my HDMI cables. (I have 3 different 4K devices that all push 4K using any of these official cables) --- however, once I plug into the Xbox S passthru I can only set them to 1080p.

    I hope some more info comes out from this - and hopeful there is a software fix.

    Also when thinking on it.. is it possible that the Shield being more of a Tablet (computer) -- it doesn't have the same DRM or something of that nature a TiVo or Direct TV or Fire TV would have? Lot of users reporting failure with 4K native passthru - so something is obviously up. *shrug*

    BTW - BRiT do you have a link to the Xbox forum post you read? I would be super curious to read and possibly contribute there as well man!

    Cheers guys.
     
  5. Aug 6, 2016 #5 of 47
    BRiT wtfdotcom

    BRiT wtfdotcom Active Member

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    I am hoping it is something Microsoft can work with Tivo and DirecTV to resolve. I would not be surprised to see it requiring a software fix on the Xbox One S side. MS have had spotty suport in the past with hdmi pass-through but have eventually managed to fix things.

    On the xbox forums itsthe preview dashboard section. I couldnt find the other threads, but heres one where the peron mentioned hdmi audio at 4k issue with his reciever. Its in the General Preview section and not the TV Hardware section:
    http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_early_a...review_forums/xosu_1606/f/5629/t/2195092.aspx

    I'll try to dig up the other threads which talked about 4k and xbox one s impressions.

    I really hope they get this resolved within a month and it doesnt linger on for months like the stuterry video with Tivo hdmi passthrough.
     
  6. Aug 6, 2016 #6 of 47
    OmeneX

    OmeneX Member

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    Gah.. this exhaustive review and testing by Polygon says with a paragraph title in large font.

    "OTHER LESS GOOD NEWS

    For the people with 4K cable boxes, I have bad news: the Xbox One S’s TV input does not support a 4K signal.
    "

    http://www.polygon.com/2016/8/2/12361270/xbox-one-S-review-impressions-4k-HDR


    Oh well. Still hopeful though.

    And thanks BRiT -- I'm going to test out some UHD Blue Rays here this weekend and make a decision to keep the XB1S or not. I may just lean on the voice controls when my Kinect USB adaptor comes in and just use TiVo on a different HDMI port. (Which sux because that's the reason I upgraded my old Elite Xbox to the XB1S in the first place) Was hoping for 4K passthru.
     
  7. Aug 6, 2016 #7 of 47
    JoE 15

    JoE 15 Member

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    Glad you posted this. I'll be holding off until it's fixed.
     
  8. Aug 6, 2016 #8 of 47
    wolfskinbjc

    wolfskinbjc Member

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    awesome to read. My roamio broke and ALMOST spent way more to get the bolt instead of relatively cheaply fixing the roamio. Makes me feel i made the better with the choice I made.
     
  9. Aug 9, 2016 #9 of 47
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I haven't tried the HDMI input of my XBOne S yet. I'll need to try it sometime with my output of the Bolt. But even if it works I'm not about to permanently run my Bolt output through the XBOne S.
     
  10. spaldingclan

    spaldingclan Member

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    I just dont understand the point of doing this anyway? is it because you've run out of HDMI ports on your AVR or TV?
     
  11. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    Is there an app on the Bolt that isn't on the Xbox One? If you want to use the integration, then you will just have to use the apps on the Xbox One if you want 4K.
     
  12. spaldingclan

    spaldingclan Member

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    does the Xbox One S support Vudu UHD? if not I have zero reason to run my tivo through it as my TV does all the apps I need in uhd and hdr
     
  13. OmeneX

    OmeneX Member

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    I heard--err, I mean when I lurked here before joining the forums -- that you have a lot of good luck with devices aaronwt – so if this works for you, we must know how, so we can do the same! :) Speaking of which your still one of the few rays of hope when it comes to using that samsung HDD Tivo Bolt upgrade without failure. (I haven't upgraded yet, but I may go with Toshiba 3tb though.)

    I set mine up this way for various reasons. But in a nutshell for me it’s mostly to increase apps available instantly, never miss Skype calls from my Son in the Navy & being able to video conference him with the whole family. To watch T.V. while gaming. (rare lol) – and the family enjoys having everything on one input with no switching required. Just voice commands to the Xbox or even the TiVo via Xbox and things just happen immediately.

    I tend to look at the Xbox UI and feature set as “in addition” to the TiVo. Basically more options, and convenience, and now with Blue Ray UHD ability. Extra apps, extra guide, extra controls.

    Listening to sound on headsets thru the Xbox One 3.5mm controller in the middle of the night is neato to.

    There are cons as with all things in life, sadly.

    I won’t list them all but the newest one is of course this 4K passthru issue.

    And even though Xbox has some bad apps – in general they are updated much faster or are superior. Being Microsoft and all. (Compliment?)

    In conjunction with that all the networking going on thru my house (other tech) that the Xbox One supports – my main room 4K 70” T.V. is heavily multitasked. Which is kinda why the need for a DVR like TiVo in the first place – and why having it on one input thru Xbox works for myself and my family. I am also kinda past having to teach new people how to use the system in depth over and over again, since it’s presented as all one big entertainment system.

    “Hey OmeneX, how do I watch TV?” -- Me: “Eh, just say -- *Watch TV* loud enough” or basically say outloud what you want it to do or what channel you want to watch on TiVo. Or click “watch TV” To hard? Don’t like voice? Well use the remote then. Don’t worry about changing inputs. In fact just turning on the Xbox defaults to “watch TV” so newbies don’t even have to navigate Xbox menus. TiVo first! Of course. And again, to watch a Blue Ray just put the disk in – no changing necessary.

    Really that simple to teach.

    As people get more comfortable then I introduce them to laptop/tablet streaming, Plex server stuff – Xbox Web Browser, and basically added functionality, deeper control. If they want it anyways. But the nice thing is all this *stuff* is always available right on tap without ever having to change devices up front. Watching TiVo – and saying watch HBO or watch Netflix or open Skype or play this game, or pause when hands full… all in the same ecosystem is kinda nifty.

    Harmony remote ties this all up even tighter, or could accomplish lots of the same without – but I personally like the ecosystem being together.

    LOL terrible I know. I even got the TiVo on a smart plug that I simply tell Amazon’s Alexa to turn off TiVo if I need to reset it for whatever reason.


    Yeah – basically having to resort to using the 4K apps on the Xbox that the TiVo has is the work around for the passthru. But here is where it also hurts. Doing that you lose the TiVo unified search across T.V – DVR and/or apps.

    Say if you want to search for a show – using TiVo’s unified search it will tell you right away where it can be found. Then you have to open that particular Xbox app (thru voice or whatever) and find the show again – then play.

    If the passthru allowed Native 4K then you could just play right there on the TiVo app within the ecosystem. Boom 4K. As it is my family currently plays at 1080p if found on the TiVo and then Xbox upscales it to 4K. (Well everyone but me does this) And it drives me up the wall when they do this. Lol – I can’t blame them though.

    I’m usually like – “We did not buy all this 4K stuff just for you guys to play it 1080p and upscale it to 4K!”

    It does have it I thought, though I don't currently use it.

    Here’s a small forum post on the Vudu app I found. Seems Vudu needs to get jiggy with it and update thier app to support UHD. It should happen eventually. Right? Right? :D

    --https://forum.vudu.com/showthread.php?948383-UHD-4K-Vudu-Support-on-Xbox-One-S--


    Cheers dudes,
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
  14. OmeneX

    OmeneX Member

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    I just want to take the time out to quote myself here - and this statement about "things just happen immediately."

    ------> That's a bit of an exaggeration I noticed. lol

    The Xbox UI can indeed be a slow mofo when it wants to be. Other times it is decently quick. Maybe.

    Flip a coin kinda thing. ;)
     
  15. foghorn2

    foghorn2 Well-Known Member

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    They should have licenced the Tivo software for the Xbox, with the 2TB, it would be a perfect DVR! A perfect Bolt rather- a flat white good looking box!!

    Missed opportunity for Tivo, since MS is killing WMC.
    You would just need an external USB tuner module.
     
  16. OmeneX

    OmeneX Member

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    Man! I like the way you think! :up::up::up:
     
  17. poppagene

    poppagene User

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    why would you want to pass the tivo through the xbox? Just connect the tivo directly to the tv.
     
  18. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    There are some benefits to using the integration (messaging/multitasking while watching tv, etc). If you have a good universal remote like a Harmony and don't need the multitasking features, then keeping them separate is probably the best method. Personally, I enjoy using the fantasy football features so I use the integration feature during football season to keep track of my scores while watching tv.
     
  19. PdX

    PdX New Member

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    I am glad to see this post. I was tempted to upgrade to the new Xbox for 4k pass through as I like to use the voice commands to control the TV and Xbox all from one input.

    Did you mention there is a way to do this without having the tivo connected to the hdmi input on the xbox?
     
  20. BRiT wtfdotcom

    BRiT wtfdotcom Active Member

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    Yes there is. You simply have the tivo connected direct to your AVR or TV and you have that input selected. When you issue voice commands, the xbox will send out the IR blaster commands and it will still control the tivo. The Xbox doesnt need it connected via HDMI IN to control it.
     

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