Tivo Bolt OTA - How to connect Antenna and coaxial cable for Moca?

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by gemini929, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. gemini929

    gemini929 New Member

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    All,

    I am trying to do some research on the Bolt OTA box before buying it. Looking at the back, I see only a single coaxial connection (#2 in the picture). How would you connect both an antenna and your existing cable to create a moca network? Do you need some sort of adapter to do this? Its not clear how this works.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Trick question ... you don't, since the BOLT OTA box doesn't include any MoCA functionality. TiVo chose to leave out (remove) the MoCA hardware from the BOLT OTA model; all other BOLT models have built-in MoCA bridging/connectivity. *IF* the BOLT OTA requires a MoCA/coax network connection (because it can't be connected via Ethernet), then you'd need to use a standalone MoCA adapter to make the MoCA connection on the BOLT OTA's behalf.

    If you'd planned on using the BOLT OTA as your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge (to "create a MoCA network), you'll need a standalone MoCA adapter to handle that function. You'll need a single MoCA adapter connected to your shared coax and to the Ethernet LAN to function as the MoCA bridge, and then additional MoCA adapters for any MoCA-less devices needing a wired network connection (lacking Ethernet connectivity but with an available connection to the shared coax plant).

    Exactly how the MoCA adapter, BOLT OTA, antenna, et al would be connected would depend on the specific setup. (... but the main issue is keeping antenna signals separate from any cable TV/Internet signals on the coax, since they use overlapping frequencies)
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    So, specific to your setup, then, where would the devices be located and what coax and/or Ethernet runs/connections are available?
     
  4. gemini929

    gemini929 New Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Are we 100% sure that the Moca capability was removed from the BOLT OTA? I have been unable to determine this from Tivo's site.

    Today I have Comcast cable/ethernet. Cable runs into the house into a commscope CSMAPDU9VP cable amplifier. Based on some previous threads, this is an older version that doesn't support Moca. As I understand it, I would have to replace this with a commscope CSMAPDU9VPI (see here) as this supports Moca 2.0 and has a built in POE filter. The odd thing is that I think the Comcast boxes I have use Moca today as the amplifier has a Moca filter that looks like this.

    Today, the cable from the street goes into the "IN" jack. From there, one of the "out" jacks feeds my cable modem and the rest feed the other 4 Comcast boxes in my house.

    I am really not sure how to proceed setting up the Tivo Bolt OTA box with this setup. I could take the cable from the street and connect it directly to my cable modem as I plan on keeping internet. Not sure what to do with the rest of this stuff or how/where I would connect a digital antenna. Thoughts?

    -Josh
     
  5. gemini929

    gemini929 New Member

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    Looks like you might be right. Comparing the two product pages:

    TiVo BOLT OTA
    2. Coax (Antenna, ATSC)
    Internet Connection
    * Built-in wireless
    * Ethernet port

    TiVo BOLT VOX
    2. Coax (digital cable, ATSC, MoCA)
    Internet Connection
    * Built-in wireless
    * Ethernet port
    * Coax/built-in MoCA bridge

    No mention of MoCA on the BOLT OTA. Does this still make sense when you add an additional $80 for their MoCA bridge? I haven't bought my own cable modem yet. I know the Comcast one support MoCA (though its disabled). Should I be looking for a cable modem that has this built in or should I be keeping these devices separate?
     
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  6. gemini929

    gemini929 New Member

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    After a bit of searching, I found a table that does definitively say that the BOLT OTA requires the MoCA bridge. Bummer.

    See this page: Tivo Customer Support Community
     
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  7. tapokata

    tapokata Active Member

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    You're going to need two adapters, at a minimum- one at your router, to "bridge" ethernet traffic between your router and your coax plant, and the other near the Bolt OTA, to serve the same function, bridging traffic between your Bolt OTA's ethernet connection and your coax plant.

    You can find better options for MoCA adapter. I use the Motorola MM1000, which will deliver traffic at near gigabit ethernet speeds (over 800 Mbps, which is double the speed of the MoCA 2.0 Tivo Bridge Adapter). The MM1000 has a built in diplexer, so it allows you to connect the bridge to the coax plant via the coax "network" connection, and use the coax "device" connection to the Bolt for tuning OTA signals.

    You can also find very inexpensive MoCA 1.1 adapters, which are slower speed, but would still be suitable if your only purpose was to connect a Bolt OTA to a Mini via MoCA (and no Bridge adapter, of course, would be needed at the Mini).
     
  8. tapokata

    tapokata Active Member

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    A stand alone adapter at the modem would likely be less expensive/intrusive than replacing the cable modem. If you are no longer using any of the other coax ports for cable TV, phone, or internet service, you could uncouple all of the drop lines, save the drop going to modem, and attach the uncoupled drops to a multiple port MoCA rated splitter, adding a POE filter and 75 ohm terminator on the input of the splitter.

    You'd still have internet service to the modem, undisturbed, but the coax network in your house would be isolated and thus used for OTA broadcast and MoCA data
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  9. gemini929

    gemini929 New Member

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    Nov 5, 2018

    Given my existing cable setup is:

    * cable from street -> CSMAPDU9VP (amplified splitter mentioned above without MoCA support) -> cable modem and 4 Comcast boxes

    Thinking out loud, can I set it up this way and only need one adapter?

    1. cable from street -> cable modem -> wifi router/switch -> Tivo Bolt OTA via ethernet. Antenna connected to Bolt OTA coaxial connection.
    2. wifi router/switch -> MoCA bridge -> CSMAPDU9VPI (amplified splitter mentioned above with MoCA support) -> multiple Tivo minis?

    For #1, no POE filter would be needed bewtween the antenna and Bolt OTA box as there is no MoCA there.
    For #2, the amplified splitter is only connected to the MoCA bridge

    With this setup, I don't think any POE filter would be necessary. Will this work?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  10. tapokata

    tapokata Active Member

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    I'm a bit unclear. Why will you need the 4 Comcast boxes? I make the assumption here that you are replacing those boxes with the Bolt OTA and three Minis?

    If you are only using the connections in #2 for the Minis, you should have no need for an amplified signal. Use an 4:1 MoCA rated splitter in #2. Connect a POE filter with a 75 ohm terminator cap on the input side port of the splitter. Connect the Bridge coax to one of the output ports, and the other three drops to for your Minis. Connect the Bridge ethernet to your router/switch. The POE fllter on the splitter is helping with the signal reflectance in the MoCA bandwidth, which will passively strengthen the signal between the MoCA devices connected to the splitter

    For #1, as long as the coax connection from the Bolt port runs directly to the antenna (that is, not through another splitter), you won't need a PoE filter in that location, as there's no MoCA on that down-lead. You can keep the connection coming from the street to the existing amplifier, and use only one drop from that amplifier to your router/switch, as currently installed. All other drops would be disconnected and used in #2, isolating your coax plant from Comcast's external network.

    You are correct that you would only need one bridge adapter.
     
  11. gemini929

    gemini929 New Member

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    Thanks for your quick reply. Just to be clear... I am looking to "cut the cord" (except for internet). The 4 Comcast boxes will be replaced by 1 Bolt OTA and 3 minis.

    Any recommendations for a 4:1 MoCA rated splitter?
     
  12. tapokata

    tapokata Active Member

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  13. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Do you have only the one coax run from the central amp location to the room with the modem/router?

    Are the 4 Comcast boxes an X1 DVR and 3 X1 client-only boxes?
     
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I'm unclear on your modem/router setup, as described:
    Do you have a combo modem/router (i.e. a gateway) from Comcast and are using it as a gateway, or do you just have a modem or are using the Comcast-supplied gateway in bridged mode (effectively reducing the gateway to a modem) in combination with your own third-party router?

    What's the model # of your Comcast-supplied modem/gateway?

    Most Comcast-supplied gateways now have built-in MoCA bridging ... but this functionality is disabled/unavailable if using the gateway as a modem (bridged mode).

    'gist: You shouldn't need any MoCA adapters if you have a modern Comcast gateway operating as a gateway and with its built-in MoCA bridging enabled. If using the gateway in bridged mode (or your own modem) to feed a separate router the Internet connection, you'll need a MoCA adapter to function as your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    You are likely correct in your guess, meaning that your existing coax setup is capable of supporting MoCA ... just not an optimal coax plant for MoCA.

    With a direct antenna connection to the BOLT OTA, you should be able to use the existing coax plant, as-is*, to get MoCA connectivity going for your TiVo boxes ... either using a standalone MoCA adapter or a Comcast gateway as your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge. (A MoCA adapter could use the coax run that would go unused by the BOLT OTA, and you could use a network switch at the BOLT OTA location to provide both devices with Ethernet connectivity if separate Ethernet connections to the router aren't possible.)

    That said, if you have the coax runs to support doing so, you'd benefit from establishing a direct connection for the modem, if only to prevent any possible MoCA and DOCSIS 3.1 conflicts down the road. You could then optionally replace the amplifier with a simple splitter, as suggested by @tapokata; either way, you'd want to ensure any open coax ports are capped with a 75-ohm terminator.

    * edit: It's unknown/questionable whether your Mini boxes could connect via MoCA prior to removal of the Comcast set-top boxes. X1 MoCA setups often conflict with a DIY MoCA install.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  17. wdw1532

    wdw1532 New Member

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    I'm in a similar boat looking for help to get my MoCA setup up and running. I'm coming from a Roamio Pro with MoCA and one TiVo Mini. I ordered a BOLT OTA and a TiVo Bridge to hook up to the new OTA antenna now that I've ditched cable and so far TiVo support has been clueless to get this new setup working. I honestly put more faith in this forum than their support staff.

    Here's my setup. Hopefully someone will have the answer.

    I have the OTA antenna coax coming directly to the living room where the BOLT OTA is. It's connected to a MoCA filter and into a splitter. The other coax connected to the splitter is: #1 going to TiVo BOLT OTA, #2 going to the TiVo Bridge, #3 going back to the in-wall coax which connects to the rest of the house and connects with the TiVo Mini in the bedroom.

    Note, we ran a dedicated new coax line to the antenna since it was not getting great signal strength when connected through the existing coax. I think it was not getting enough power from the antenna power block.

    Also, based on suggestions I found in this forum, we separated the cable modem internet service from the rest of the existing coax network. So, currently the cable company's internet coax comes in and goes directly to the modem. It does not connect to the rest of the coax in the house.

    Per the TiVo MoCA instructions, we have ethernet cable running from the TiVo Bridge to the router. No ethernet cable is running directly to the TiVo Bolt OTA although we did try that while troubleshooting. It was my understanding that the bridge would send the internet signal to the TiVo BOLT through the MoCA/coax.

    This setup should be correct based on everything we've read and TiVo said it was correct. However, when we go into the network settings on the TiVo BOLT OTA, it does not list the option for MoCA the way it used to on my Roamio Pro (which had built-in MoCA).

    What I assumed was that the TiVo Bridge would be sensed by the TiVo BOLT and it would add the option for MoCA. I think that's how it worked when I setup my friends Roamio OTA and Bridge a few years back. Unfortunately that hasn't happened. When connected in this manner, TiVo can't get internet either.

    So, what are we doing wrong? TiVo support tried to say after a lot of run around that suddenly they think we need two TiVo Bridges instead of one. When I questioned that, we mysteriously got disconnected. I even tried to connect the old Roamio Pro so that it could create the MoCA network but I still couldn't connect to the MoCA with the TiVo BOLT OTA even with the Roamio up and running.

    We had MoCA working for 4 years with the old TiVo Roamio setup and the only differences now are that we separated the internet coax, and replaced the Roamio Pro with built-in MoCA with the BOLT OTA and external MoCA/TiVo Bridge. Obviously the antenna was added too.

    Hopefully that's enough information but please let me know if you need to know anything else.
     
  18. tapokata

    tapokata Active Member

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    The Bolt OTA model does not have on-board MoCA support. If the Bolt is in the same room as your router, the easiest solution is to add an ethernet cable from the Bolt to your router. The connection from your router to the Bridge is correct- as it "bridges" the data between the ethernet and coax connections.

    If the Bolt isn't in the same room, you'll need an additional adapter.
     
  19. tapokata

    tapokata Active Member

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    In a word graphic:

    Antenna > (coax) > Bolt OTA <> (ethernet) <> router <> (ethernet) <> Tivo Bridge <> (coax) <> Mini

    Televisions signals are moving from the Antenna to the Bolt coax port. Data signals are moving to/from the Bolt ethernet port, to/from the router, to/from the router to the Tivo Bridge via ethernet, and to/from the Bridge to/from the Mini via Coax.
     
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    This is because, as @tapokata mentioned, the BOLT OTA lacks *any* MoCA functionality, unlike your Roamio Pro. The BOLT OTA is like the Roamio OTA, in that respect.

    Agreed. The MoCA adapter requires an Ethernet connection to the router's LAN to bridge the coax/MoCA network to the LAN; and the BOLT requires the Ethernet connection for its own network connection. A slight twist to the configuration that would mirror the functionality you had built-in to the Roamio Pro would be using a standalone Gigabit Ethernet switch at the BOLT OTA/MoCA adapter location (rather than the router's built-in switch), connecting the switch back to the router LAN via an Ethernet cable, and connecting both the MoCA adapter and BOLT OTA to the standalone switch. Either way would work.

    That said, you'd want to review your central junction and describe how all your coax runs now interconnect, after the modem has supposedly been given an isolated connection. You'd want to make sure that your shared coax plant has no physical connection to the cable provider, and that the central splitter still has a MoCA filter installed on its input (for its performance benefit), capped by a 75-ohm terminator.
     

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