Tivo Bolt MOCA Showing Version 1.1 - trying to get Mesh Wifi working through MOCA

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by mdcubsfan, Aug 20, 2020.

  1. mdcubsfan

    mdcubsfan New Member

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    Hi all -

    Just this past week as I was researching options for extending Wifi signal in my house I came across forum posts about using MOCA and existing coax cables, which led me down a hole of looking into all the available options.

    I have a Tivo Bolt and have been using MOCA with it with several Tivo Mini and Tivo Vox Mini all around the house. When I check the network settings on the Tivo Bolt and on other Mini it says MOCA version 1.1 (I assume it's always been this, I just had never looked as it's been working fine for all my Tivo). I called Tivo and they said the Bolt should be showing version 2.0 and that it was not a coax or Tivo issue but a internet issue. So then I spent 1.5 hours on the phone with ATT fiber and they really couldn't figure out what the issue was either.

    I have coax coming in from the wall and plugged into my Tivo Bolt. I had my Bolt ethernet wired into a switch that was ethernet wired into my Netgear Orbi mesh router. With the ATT rep we tried plugging the Bolt ethernet directly into the gateway modem (bypassing the switch and router) and reset the Tivo connection but still showing 1.1

    The MOCA (at 1.1) has been working fine for me, but as I'm looking at different options to expand my Wifi around the house I (obviously) want the fastest possible connection. I'm on Orbi Wifi 6 and paying for ATT fiber (1000 mpbs) and getting anywhere from 50-200 mpbs in most places around the house.

    my hope was to get at least MOCA 2.0 with the Tivo and throughout the coax in the house, or if need be I would definitely spend the money on the MOCA 2.5 adapters I've seen from Actiontec or Gocoax to get 2.5 throughout the house and connect those to the Wifi satellites.

    Thanks for any help!!!!!
     
  2. shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    If you have enough throughput to watch the shows, why bother? Did you connect a point of entry filter between the cable company coax and your splitter?
     
  3. mdcubsfan

    mdcubsfan New Member

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    Yes, throughout is fine to watch the shows, but for example in our movie room while TV/movies are fine the xbox constantly says "internet speeds too slow" and kicks my kids off or "glitches" all the time as they like to say.

    Trying to figure out if I can use the MOCA throughout the house to connect to Orbi and then use the Orbi mesh satellite to get faster speeds for all other wireless devices.

    I do have a POE filter installed, I think that's why my MOCA works.

    My biggest question now is why all the Tivos are showing MOCA 1.1 instead of 2.0, and if that is limiting any other MOCA network if I try and use it for Wifi.
     
  4. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    Where do you look for the MOCA version?
     
  5. mdcubsfan

    mdcubsfan New Member

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    Away from home and Tivo right now, but I think it's under the Network Settings.....it will list MOCA and associated data, and it says Network Version 1.1. It says this on my Tivo Bolt and all the attached Minis throughout the house. I tried to "reinstall" the MOCA network as a bridge on Tivo and it will refresh the uplink time, but still says MOCA 1.1.

    Tivo tech support had no idea why it wasn't 2.0 and ATT couldn't help either.
     
  6. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    TE3 here. When I look at network settings it simply says “MOCA”. Maybe that’s because on my Bolt it’s in bridge mode with an actionteK at my modem and router location.
     
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    MoCA stats can be found on the Network Status dialog:

    TiVo Central
    > Settings & Messages
    > Network Settings
    > Network Troubleshooting
    > Network Status
    NOTE: Use the Channel Up/Down remote buttons to navigate the multiple pages of info, as needed.
     
  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    This is nonsense. As you've likely found by now, your Internet connection has nothing to do with the MoCA spec reported by your connected TiVo devices.

    I haven't done any testing in a mixed setup (though could, now that I have a Mini VOX), but the MoCA "Network version" doesn't seem reliable for reporting the MoCA spec of a given peer connection.

    Regardless of the "Network version" reported by the DVR, acting as your main MoCA bridge, if maximum throughput and reliability is the goal, I expect that you'd want to consider switching to a standalone MoCA 2.5 adapter as your main bridge, and employ MoCA 2.5 adapters to connect your mesh satellites and anywhere else you have critical devices that can be wired (like kids' gaming consoles). At best the BOLT, with a standard MoCA 2.0 chip, could deliver up to 400 Mbps throughput, but a MoCA 2.5 bridge should be capable of full Gigabit speeds. (Add'l reliability is gained, also, by a MoCA bridge not requiring reboot as often as a DVR.)
     
  9. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, didn’t realize there was more info to be seen by channel downing. 1.1
     
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  10. mdcubsfan

    mdcubsfan New Member

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    Thanks for all the help to all the posters who responded here and to me by PM. Really appreciate it as I'm trying to figure this all out!

    I went ahead and ordered gocoax MOCA 2.5 to set up my MOCA network, and will run my Tivo Bolt and Minis off that as clients. This way I can (hopefully) get the 2.5 speeds throughout my coax network, and at least the 2.0 with the Bolt and 1.1 or 2.0 with the Minis (again, speed wasn't an issue with any Tivo shows - it was mainly to try and maximize MOCA in those rooms so I can improve my Wifi).

    https://www.amazon.com/goCoax-Adapt...tronics&sprefix=gocoax,electronics,206&sr=1-3

    I got these splitters, so if I understand correctly, in the rooms where I have the Tivo Minis I take the coax from the wall and into this splitter, and one coax out into Tivo and one coax out into the adapter so I can plug ethernet into the adapter correct?

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KO8W93E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Fingers crossed this can eventually solve my Wifi issues. Would be way to hard to run ethernet in the house, and with the preexisting coax I can hopefully get faster speeds everywhere (even with the Wifi 6 mesh I'm getting no more than 50-100 in many rooms. Have had AV guys say it's the house construction that significantly degrades the speeds. For example, trying to set up a Arlo security camera literally 10 feet away from the mesh satellite and it will not connect).
     

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  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Two thoughts...
    • Running the Minis over MoCA is optional for any Mini location where you'd be installing a MoCA adapter; the Mini could be connected via an Ethernet switch through the adapter. But if you want the Minis networked via MoCA, yes, you'd use a splitter as you've described to allow a MoCA connection for both the Mini and MoCA adapter.
    • Preferred splitters for MoCA are the Holland GHS-PRO-M series (specs), though they seem to be in short supply via one recommended vendor (link); edit: ah, looks like the line-up is evolving to a new model (link). (Can't vouch for the splitter posted.)

    Leveraging your coax for communication between your mesh satellites should help, but getting fixed devices wired and off your wireless spectrum should go a long way to helping with the issue, as well. (e.g. PCs, game consoles, streaming boxes, etc.)

    As you evolve your setup, I'd think that you'd want to use a LAN speed testing tool (such as LAN Speed Test, iPerf, etc.) to evaluate your bandwidth between locations, rather than relying on reported link rates or Internet-based speed tests.


    edit: p.s. Depending on what you're seeing for speed tests and connection rates, another possibility once you have your new MoCA 2.5 adapters is running two separate MoCA networks, one in the lower frequency range for your non-MoCA 2.5 TiVo devices, and the upper range reserved for MoCA 2.5 (3 bonded channels). Just something to keep in mind, not a starting point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Re: your MoCA stats screenshot:
    The "TX power" value of 3.00 dB indicates that your MoCA gear is currently operating at maximum amplification, not an optimal condition, so a review of your coax setup would be worthwhile prior to arrival of your MoCA 2.5 gear. (Possible range of TX Power is -30 to 3 dB, with a lower value being preferable. Once max amplification is hit, bandwidth rates can be affected and effective throughput diminished.)

    Also, as mentioned above, the MoCA stats info available via the "Network Status" screen can be scrolled using the Channel Down/Up remote buttons, to get more detailed stats for each connected MoCA node.
     
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I'm assuming this is with a wall in-between, right?
     
  14. mdcubsfan

    mdcubsfan New Member

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    Yes - it's right around a corner, but literally if I was to measure it's even closer than 10 feet. Just boggles my mind that I can't get the Arlo camera connected when running Wifi 6 mesh system.
     
  15. mdcubsfan

    mdcubsfan New Member

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    Thanks for all the help and suggestions, will look into the Holland splitters. I had no idea "TX power" was something - sorry I'm sure this is basic, but when you suggest a review of the coax setup, what exactly does that entail?

     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    No worries, it's not something the normal customer was concerned about, so long as the TV signal was sufficient.

    Reviewing your coax setup would just involve figuring out how your various locations are connected to each other and your source signal via coax, and through what components (splitters, amps), including identifying whether a "PoE" MoCA filter has been installed and, if so, where. The goal is to improve PHY rates (and lower the TX Power value), to ensure that you're getting the most from your coax MoCA network.

    You can post a description of what you find (including model numbers), though a diagram (however rough) can be more effective. (see attached for example)
     

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    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    FYI... I updated the earlier post with an additional search link for another splitter model. (Or use this, ignoring the DirecTV models.)
     
  18. mdcubsfan

    mdcubsfan New Member

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    Jul 28, 2006
    Spent all of labor day weekend working on this project. Several hiccups of course, including 2 whole days right before my daughter's first day of (virtual) high school when the internet/wifi was completely down.

    So first i went to my closet and took off 3 previous 2 or 3 way splitters and replaced them with 1 8 way splitter.

    Then I used the GoCoax 2.5 MOCA adapters to set up my network. I set up 6 different adapters - wall to MOCA input and in some rooms, TV out to the Tivo, and in all rooms, ethernet out to a Orbi mesh wifi satellite. Eventually got all the lights (power, MOCA, LAN) to come on and stay on, although it took many many times of power cycling as I was changing so many things up at the same time.

    I also did a lot of rewiring power outlets, surge protectors, taking away powerlines that I had been using, and setting up multiple new ethernet hubs/switches.

    So finally I got my internet working. I got my MOCA network working. Hard wired tested and in all spots it seems to be working well, with most speeds anywhere from 20-50% faster than what I was getting at the satellites when it was just Wifi. The biggest difference (and most important) is in my office, where Wifi was spotty. Sometimes I got 50mbps, sometimes up to 200, and at frequent stretches for 10-30 minutes at a time, I got no service. Now with hardwire through the MOCA adapter I am getting 800 up and down all the time.

    Now I come to the final step. Getting my Tivo units back on. I have 1 Bolt, 2 Mini, 2 Vox mini, and an old Roamio that I connect to the network just because it has a ton of old shows we plan to make it through someday. I disconnected all of them and tried just getting the Bolt back on. Before all of the units connected to MOCA, it just was limited speed and "Network Version 1.1". Now I can't get the Bolt back onto MOCA. Before I used it as a bridge to set up the network, now I'm trying to setup as client to add to my current 2.5 network. Keep getting the C33 error - can't detect MOCA network.

    Called Tivo yesterday and we tried the same with some of the mini / vox. Also C33 error. Ultimately they said it's a compatibility issue with the GoCoax brand, but I have seen others in the forums post. about using this brand.

    Unless I can figure this out, I guess my options are to switch out all MOCA adapters to the Actiontec (which are 2.0 and also more expensive), or just use ethernet to the tivo units (although I'd have to buy 2 more adapters since in 2 rooms I don't have any accessible ethernet)

    Thanks to all for your help, sorry in my delay in posting, but it's taken me a better part of a week to get this all going, all while driving my wife and kids mad.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The RF pass-through port of MoCA adapters (“Device” or “TV/STB Out” port) cannot be used to connect additional MoCA nodes or segments as this port doesn’t pass MoCA signals. MoCA adapters effectively use a diplexer to split the signal by frequency (via filters) rather than using a splitter, so the pass-through port only supports 5-1002 MHz signals.

    In any location where you want a goCoax MoCA adapter and a TiVo box both networked via MoCA, you’d need to use a MoCA-compatible splitter to get both devices directly connected to your coax plant. Alternatively, just network the TiVo boxes via Ethernet through their co-located MoCA adapters (using a GigE network switch).
     
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  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Using Ethernet where available for your TiVo boxes, to avoid additional splitters, you could stick with MoCA client connections for those TiVo boxes where you haven’t installed a stand-alone MoCA adapter.
     
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