TiVo ATSC 3.0

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by bradleys, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Apr 10, 2019 #1 of 101
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Dave Zatz posted a video this morning from TiVo that discusses ATSC 3.0 and the potential of an external add on tuner that would be required.



    Help me understand this:

    I assume, this is OTA only?
    I assume this is a new broadcast standard that the onboard tuners cannot support?
    I assume the external device they are suggesting would replace / bypass existing onboard tuners?
    I assume the broadcasters would be required to send dual signals similar to the digital conversion?

    I am not sure what the benefit to the consumer is to actively get external hardware to utilize ATSC 3.0 instead of using the legacy broadcast.

    Am I understanding this or am I all over the place?
     
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  2. Apr 10, 2019 #2 of 101
    JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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  3. Apr 10, 2019 #3 of 101
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

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    ATSC 3.0 is a new OTA standard, but it would be interesting as an add-on for the cable Bolts as well, since it's just a network tuner.

    New tuning hardware is required.

    This appears to be an add-on tuner. It connects to your network (it'll eventually be a self-contained tuning device) and Tivo records the IP output stream with software. No Tivo tuner used, presumably.

    Presently, broadcasters will have to continue broadcasting ATSC 1.0 for 5 years after they start ATSC 3.0.

    The benefit is 4K OTA programming, or 1080p programming if the broadcaster decides to go that route. Current ATSC 1.0 1080i/720p broadcasts might actually decrease in quality due to bandwidth constraints.

    I think Tivo/Arris will eventually release an OTA DVR with native ATSC 3.0 support, but this works in the meantime I guess.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  4. Apr 10, 2019 #4 of 101
    exdishguy

    exdishguy Active Member

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    The big question is - works with what? Christ, we wait over a decade for the broadcasters to pick ATSC and HD and then spent another two decades just getting into most markets. ATSC 3.0? As if.

    It's nice to see Tivo trying to innovate again but damn, I sure wish they'd focus on UX. LIke...all hands on friggin' deck. Seems to me if they plan on being relevant as a somewhat hardware-agnostic software company, they really really need to get the UX right. Yet, here we are dicking around with ATSC 3.0 and Auto-Skip. Whoopee.
     
  5. Apr 11, 2019 #5 of 101
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    What codec is ATSC 3.0 going to use for HD? H.264 or HEVC? I know they'll have to use HEVC if they want to do UHD, but what are they settling on for HD? I think the Bolt is the only TiVo with HEVC decoding capabilities so if they use that then the Bolt will be the only TiVo capable of using this thing.
     
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  6. Apr 11, 2019 #6 of 101
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    ATSC 3.0 can support H.264 but it's broadly believed that everything -- 4K, HD, SD -- will be done in HEVC H.265 since it's more efficient. No point in wasting bandwidth.
     
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  7. Apr 11, 2019 #7 of 101
    gigaquad

    gigaquad Tivo Image Master

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    Ugh, another excuse to sell more TVs and hardware. Thanks Government. I really love you guys changing everything just about the time I get it all situated like i like it.
    I really couldn't care less if we have 4k. We get 1080, 720, and 480 here and I can watch either and be happy.
     
  8. Apr 11, 2019 #8 of 101
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry--you have a few days. ;)
     
  9. Apr 11, 2019 #9 of 101
    jth tv

    jth tv Well-Known Member

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    Yeah well if HEVC was so great then why doesn't Netflix et al use it. Shouldn't it save a ton of money for the super popular shows even when only some users have the capability ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  10. Apr 11, 2019 #10 of 101
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Not many hardware platforms support it yet. HEVC is currently used for all UHD streaming, because devices that support UHD also support HEVC, but many of the HD only devices out there only support H.264 so Netflix, etc... use H.264 for HD/SD because it affords them broader support.

    As HEVC decoding becomes standard on more devices there will likely come a time when these platforms switch over. Even in it's cheapest form HEVC can encode video ~20-30% more efficiently then H.264 for the same quality. It's unlikely to get to the full 50% for HD but even that 20-30% could make a big difference for streaming services like Netflix that consume an enormous amount of bandwidth.
     
  11. Apr 11, 2019 #11 of 101
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    So the idea here for TiVo is to create an HDHomeRun type tuner for ATSC 3.0 that the TiVo then uses via the network to record? I wonder if that means it would work with Cable only Bolts?
     
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  12. Apr 12, 2019 #12 of 101
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I was wondering that, as well. I would think that it would *have* to work with OTA-only TiVo models, so my guess is that CableCARD-only models might be excluded.

    I remain puzzled that TiVo hasn’t managed to partner with SiliconDust to enable integration of their networked tuners.
     
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  13. Apr 12, 2019 #13 of 101
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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  14. Apr 12, 2019 #14 of 101
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Why? Seems to me that it wouldn't matter what kind of tuners (whether OTA or QAM cable) that a Bolt has in it, it could still potentially work with an external 3.0 tuner. It's just a matter of the software on the Bolt communicating to the external tuner which channel to tune in and then receiving the tuner's IP stream via ethernet (or possibly wifi), loading it into the Bolt buffer and recording it to its hard drive.
     
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  15. Apr 12, 2019 #15 of 101
    dadrepus

    dadrepus Active Member

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    This is exactly what I perceived from the demo. The tuner is capturing the signal. The computer is processing the signal and sending it to the Tivo via ethernet, which in turn records the stream to its hard drive for future/concurrent viewing. So, this proof of concept seems to work and shows Tivo is not abandoning the retail market or its current customer base, Good work Tivo.
     
  16. Apr 12, 2019 #16 of 101
    jth tv

    jth tv Well-Known Member

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    A Bolt can be used to watch shows recorded on a Roamio. I would expect the Bolt would be able to watch shows recorded on a ATSC 3.0 Tivo dvr.
     
  17. Apr 12, 2019 #17 of 101
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Right. And really, the computer shouldn't have any real processing to do with the signal itself, since ATSC 3.0 signals are just HEVC-encoded IP streams. I really don't think that the raw output of the tuner is different from an HEVC stream from Netflix or Prime Video. My guess is that the computer connected to the tuner is just there to receive commands from the TiVo (tune to RF channel 27) and then to take the tuner's output and know how to send it back to the TiVo via ethernet.
     
  18. Apr 12, 2019 #18 of 101
    dadrepus

    dadrepus Active Member

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    You are right I assume. What I meant to say is "the computer sends the signal to the tivo via ethernet. I wonder, does this mean that they are working on recording "all" streaming inputs.ie: Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Disney? it would be so nice if I didn't have to switch to those different services to watch the few shows I want and could download them to my Tivo for future watching. Probably a pipe dream :(
     
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  19. Apr 12, 2019 #19 of 101
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    In short, it's good to see TiVo working to fight being made obsolete, and to having the core of its functionality for the consumer simply disappearing.
     
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  20. Apr 12, 2019 #20 of 101
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Technologically, it would be pretty simple. But for business reasons (fear of easy redistribution of pristine copies of copyrighted material), Netflix, etc. will never allow it. So yeah, a pipe dream.
     
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