TiVo and captioning

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by infael, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. bicker

    bicker bUU

    Nov 9, 2003


    Yes, good point. Among DVRs, TiVo is among the best in this regard.
  2. Mordred

    Mordred New Member

    Oct 5, 2003
    Austin, TX
    In my opinion, they are just not as bad as they could possibly be, but I guess I'll stop complaining about it as their poor initial implementation leaves little room for improving the situation now.
  3. phox_mulder

    phox_mulder I get paid 2watch TV

    Feb 23, 2006
    Salt Lake...
    Some shows have started dual captioning, English on CC1, Spanish on CC2,
    I'll throw Cane out as an example.

    CBS sent a memo telling us to check and make sure we were passing CC2 before Cane premiered, as this was the first show they had aired with dual captions.

    Both CC1 and CC2 are on the same line, so it would be easy for them to get mixed in with each other.

    (or maybe spanish was on CC3)

  4. trainman

    trainman Nice to see you

    Jan 29, 2001
    Spanish captioning is done in mixed case because, in the standard analog captioning character set, most of the accented characters are only available in their lower-case form.

    English captioning is usually done in upper case because that's the way it's always been done. :D
  5. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2001


    tangential question:
    Doesn't this mean that there is less bandwidth for each CC language?
    or is it split up into 4 sections and even if only the main one is used, that's all the bandwidth it gets?

    In other words, I would expect that line 21 with only one 'channel' of captions could fit a lot more text than one that needed 4 channels. CC is slow enough that they sometimes miss words anyway. Part of this is to keep up with the speakers, but I thought it was sometimes due to the slow CPS speed of the captions..
  6. jmemmott

    jmemmott New Member

    Jul 12, 2003
    Santa Cruz, CA
    In traditional Line 21 captions, CC1 and CC2 share bandwidth as do CC3 and CC4. This lies behind the FCC recommendation that when dual language broadcasts are made, CC1 be used for English and CC3 be used for the second language. However many of the early decoders only handled CC1 and CC2 so broadcasters got in the habit of using those channels and they do step on each others bandwidth. The text speed is usually not the problem. It is all the control codes for screen positioning, rollup vs popup, etc. that actually consume a lot of resources.

    In the case of HD and digital broadcasting, all of this data is carried as binary data in a separate data channel with more than enough bandwidth to allow CC1-CC4, XDS, T1-T4 and other data streams to consume what ever they need without steping on each other. This is one of the pluses for moving to digital broadcasting.
  7. barbeedoll

    barbeedoll New Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    Duh! I was skipping over the "on the info panel" part and thinking this was a quick trick with the remote.


  8. Big Rick

    Big Rick New Member

    Aug 12, 2004
    San Diego
    I was annoyed about the captioning, also, until I found out that you can get to captioning by pressing the right-arrow while watching video. True, you have to leave the show for a brief second or two when you toggle it, but at least Tivo backs you up to the spot you were at when you left. I love Tivo. :)
  9. hastypete

    hastypete Member

    Oct 2, 2007

    I think what he means is why don't they re-design it that way. and I think you knew that.

  10. bicker

    bicker bUU

    Nov 9, 2003
    Read the earlier part of the thread, and you'll understand my reply.
  11. Mars Rocket

    Mars Rocket Loosely wound

    Mar 24, 2000
    Sinnoh region
    Nevertheless, TiVo has a method for turning the captions on and off, and if they so chose they could make it a single-button action. The problem is that the TiVo remote doesn't have any way of selecting such an action, so if they *did* make it available it wouldn't work for most people.

    It's possible that there is a function like that and that it is simply unavailable via the TiVo remote but could be used by those who can program their remotes to send out a custom code. There are 256 code possibilities, right? How many are in use by the TiVo remote? 40 or so?

    Think about the "Jump to Now Playing" function (List) that was available on the Sony Series-1 remote - the software supported it, but the standard TiVo remote just couldn't send the proper signal to make it happen.
  12. morac

    morac Cat God TCF Club

    Mar 14, 2003
    My main problem with this is that is that I run the TiVo in native mode and by going into the menus, unless I'm watching a 720p program, my TV needs to switch to 720p which blanks the screen for a few seconds. Once I turn CC on and go back to what I'm watching it blanks the screen again for a few seconds. So even though I've memorized the remote steps (info, down, down, down, select, down, right, up, select) it still takes at least 5 seconds to turn CC on and off and I have to instant replay to see the few seconds I missed when coming out of the CC menus while my TV was switching resolutions.

    Most of the time I turn it on because I can't understand a single phrase and then immediately turn it off again. A one button solution would be much more user friendly. TiVo could use the down or up arrow since neither is used during playback.
  13. markboy008

    markboy008 New Member

    Oct 6, 2007

    I totally agree - that is the exact reason I use CC, and most televisions support this with one button (either a with dedicated CC button, or a "CC on mute" setting). Comments like "there are worse solutions than Tivo's" or "it wasn't designed that way" don't make an 9 key sequence and leaving the program anywhere near user-friendly, and falls well below the usability standards that I think we all love in Tivo. Seems it would be pretty easy for Tivo to develop a reasonable remote sequence to toggle this.

    In the meantime, I've been using a kludgy back-door workaround that you might try that is only 5 key presses instead of 9, and doesn't leave the show or cause screen-blanking while switching video. I enable the lower-right hand on-screen clock via the backdoor key sequence "select-play-select-9-select". It turns out when the clock is on, it blocks CC. So I set CC to be on all the time. Normally it is blocked by the clock and doesn't show, so to turn it on I press S-P-S-9-S to turn off the clock and unblock CC, then I press S-P-S-9-S to turn the clock back on and block CC.
  14. Bradc314

    Bradc314 Hi.

    Dec 4, 2001
    I tried the SPS9S trick last night, and added it to my dad's Harmony remote. This self-made toggle only worked about 50% of the time. Most of the time it changed to channel 9...
  15. omni555

    omni555 New Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    If you are watching live TV, SPS9S will change your channel to 9. On the other hand, if you are viewing a recording, it will not.

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