TiVo Alternatives?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Saturn, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

    3,592
    393
    Apr 2, 2005
    Peacock isn't out yet. And Comcast is the cable company. Those guys have a hard time letting go of the status quo.

    Also Netflix, 2 years ago, introduced the play content automatically as you scroll through the shows. The other day they finally announced the option to turn that off. :) A lot of people didn't like it and have been vocal about it. I was torn myself whether I liked this feature or not. Sometimes I kind of did. A lot of the time I found it annoying.

    But the linear channel business model and playing content automatically aren't the same thing.
     
  2. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    3,561
    1,656
    May 2, 2015
    I didn't say they were the same thing. I was saying that autoplaying of content can serve some of the needs that linear channels currently do. Reading is fundamental.
     
  3. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

    3,592
    393
    Apr 2, 2005
    But I didn't say you did. :)
     
  4. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

    3,592
    393
    Apr 2, 2005
    "
    In a letter to investors by CEO Anthony Wood and CFO Steve Louden (who is set to depart from the company after helping find his replacement), Roku made a big prediction: “By 2024 roughly half of all U.S. TV households will have cut the cord or never had traditional pay TV.”

    “While streaming became mainstream in the last decade, it is still a minority of TV viewing,” the letter stated. “We have now entered the streaming decade when we believe consumers around the world will choose streaming as their primary way of viewing TV.”"
     
  5. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Active Member

    426
    142
    Feb 17, 2015
    That’s nice marketspeak, and might even turn out to be true. :)


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
    wizwor likes this.
  6. Joe3

    Joe3 Active Member

    699
    190
    Dec 12, 2006
    Boston MA
    No, no, guys, just leave. No need to help finding your replacement. Just walk out the door and be careful of the snap back.
    Thanks, but no thanks. Any five year old can take it from here.
     
  7. JLV03

    JLV03 Active Member

    113
    46
    Feb 12, 2018
  8. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    7,268
    757
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    The problem is their content has turned into garbage, as has most of the other cable channels. They're basically irrelevant at this point. Sports and cable news have been the only things on cable for several years now.

    YouTube and Netflix have to be finally changing the mentality of people who were stuck in the pre-1977 and pre-1999 worlds of linear and taped TV, since you have to actively seek out what you want. Even my dad, who was stubbornly refused to use a DVR for years is getting used to finding what he wants via streaming.

    This is why Netflix and YouTube are so successful... people just watch whatever the algorithm serves up. However, there is a huge content discoverability problem in a world without cable, but cable can no longer solve that problem since virtually all of the interesting content that people are talking about isn't on cable anymore. With algorithms it's easy to be pushed into a niche of content, especially on YouTube, and never get out of it.

    A lot of discovery is going to be social.... somebody talks about "hey did you see xyz" and then you go search for it. So in some ways, it's back to the basics in terms of content discoverability.

    The tech side of it is getting easier than ever. No longer do you have to have Larry the proverbial cable guy come out and hook up a giant box that runs hot all the time in your living room, many people just use smart TVs, or if not a smart TV, a streaming box/stick that's wireless. Everything is moving to Wi-Fi since it has to be reliable and omni-present anyway, it works for all sorts of networked devices.
     
    mschnebly likes this.
  9. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

    3,592
    393
    Apr 2, 2005
    DISH pricing is looking attractive.

    I chose the $60/mo package and went to the next to last page and the dvr and a 2nd tv are included in the price. $5/mo discount for autopay. $5/mo per each tv above the 2nd. I don't even see a contract mentioned. Pricing is good for at least 2 years. None of this goes way up in 1 year. You also get a $150 debit card.

    I didn't want to do the credit check, but that is the most streamlined I've seen pricing. Showed no fees. Is this too good to be true? Is the last page going to have a ton of fees and taxes. I am curious to know what the final price is. I always wanted to try satellite but never did. I doubt I ever will. Don't want to have to go on the roof and get the snow off the satellite. Nevermind my house is surrounded by tall trees. YTTV is cheap and easy and enjoyable. But the fantasy is there. lol.

    btw DISH said they see themselves eventually merging with DirectTV on their conference call. The observation from Ergen being the environment has changed that such a merger today would be approved. And obviously benefit from the scale.
     
  10. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

    3,592
    393
    Apr 2, 2005
    Charlie: "
    We'll start with DISH DIRECTV. Probably inevitable that those two should go together just because the growth in TV is not coming from linear satellite TV providers. It's coming from huge programmers, and trillion-dollar companies. So, I think the regulatory environment, usually it's behind the marketplace, but I think that becomes increasingly likely that that makes logical sense. Having said that, obviously there still could be regulatory issues there. And we'll have to see how that all develops, but that's to me seems -- and maybe each company only has two subscribers when you put them together, but eventually those two are probably going to -- that's going to make some sense because you just can't -- you can't swim upstream against a real tide of the over-the-top, big players. I forgot what the first question was. Oh, some regional sports.

    Look, everything we do here is somewhat mathematical in the sense that we have real data for a long time of what our customers watch. And I don't think it takes real rocket science to see when customers watch and how much they watch, what the value of programming is. And the marketplace has been historical, and somebody got a price, and so their typical negotiating tactic is well, we were getting paid X. We now want X plus for the next contract. And it's always X plus, and that can be -- as you've seen in the marketplace, that can be in the high single-digits in terms of price increases that people want. What we see is the exact opposite, which is people are watching less of many people's programmers, and we would say that your price should go down if people are watching less. And one of the big outliers was regional sports in terms of the amount of money they charge and collect versus the amount of people who actually view them. So, we would love to do a deal with regional sports.

    We really like Sinclair the company. We would -- it was unfortunate circumstance in that Sinclair did not own the regional sports on our contract was up. And then once somebody leaves our network that wants regional sports, it doesn't make sense to burden the -- because we have less people today on our network, we still have some people that might want to watch regional sports. But it's a fraction of what it was last August when they came down. So, the programmers have a hard time understanding that once somebody leaves their network, there's no reason to put something back and tax the rest of people because the people who really watch the channel leave us because they have alternatives. So, the math was clear that the kind of offer we had from the Disney folks at the time that our contract was up was not even close to something that made sense for us.

    A lot of times in business, it's really easy decisions, and some you got to think about. But this was an easy one, and that's where we are today. And obviously, Sinclair now owns it. We've had a great relationship with Sinclair for a long period of time. But whether you can put Humpty Dumpty back together again remains an open question."
     
  11. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    3,561
    1,656
    May 2, 2015
    Regardless of your or my or any other random person's feelings about Discovery-owned programming, they are anything but irrelevant at this point. Last August, per Nielsen ratings, they were the number 1 media company for female viewers nationwide.

    Discovery tops among female viewers in US | Ratings/Measurement | News | Rapid TV News
     
  12. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

    3,592
    393
    Apr 2, 2005
    Yeah i guess for Bigg, one man's garbage is another 1000000 women's treasure.
     
    NashGuy likes this.
  13. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    3,561
    1,656
    May 2, 2015
    No, on top of the stated price for the programming package (e.g. $60/mo for AT120), there is also a DVR fee. If you qualify for and can get their top-of-the-line Hopper 3 (16 tuners, 2 TB), the DVR service fee is $10/mo. If you get the lesser Hopper Duo (only 2 tuners, 500 GB), the fee is $5/mo. Whatever kind of receiver you get for the first TV is included in the programming package price. Each additional receiver is $5/mo. But based on DISH's fine print, it looks like maybe the promo price for the first 2 years includes a $5/mo DVR service credit. So going with a Hopper Duo on 1 TV adds nothing to the package cost; upgrading to a Hopper 3 adds $5/mo. But that $5/mo credit will roll off after the first 2 yrs, I think.

    There is still the 2-yr contract for new subs. I believe your prices are frozen for the whole 2 years though, before going up to the then-prevailing regular price. Right now, the regular price for the AT120 package is $68/mo, just $8 more than the new subscriber rate for the first two years.

    My parents have had DISH for years. It's been OK for them, although they do have occasional rain fade and have had problems with the hardware. They separately get the lowest tier broadband from Comcast. They'd like to pay less overall. (What cable TV subscriber wouldn't?) Strongly considering switching to AT&T Fiber + AT&T TV this spring.

    Taxes and fees aren't "gotchas" as best I can tell with DISH. [EDIT: See below.] Their bill shows a 5 cent FCC Regulatory Fee plus $2.08 in state and local sales tax. They're under an older pricing and hardware regime (pre-Hopper). Each of their 2 TVs has a standalone 2-tuner HD DVR (not a main whole-home DVR with an extender box on the second TV, as is now done with Hopper+ Joey). They pay a total of $17 for the two boxes with DVR service, on top of the regular price for the AT250 package. But the equpment/DVR pricing for you would be as I outlined above.

    EDIT: Actually, their bill shows that they pay an additional $12/mo for local channels. Apparently DISH does not include the cost of locals in their advertised regular package prices. So it's not clear to me if that $60 new subscriber promo rate for AT120 includes locals or if it would really be $72/mo. Actually, based on further inspection, it looks like the advertised price DOES include locals.

    So, best I can tell, getting AT120, with locals and a Hopper Duo DVR would stay at $60/mo plus taxes for the full 2-yr contract term. Based on current pricing, that package would jump up by $25 after 2 years (add $12 for locals, add $8 for regular pricing on AT120, add $5 for basic DVR service). Add $5 to upgrade from a Hopper Duo to a Hopper 3 on your main TV. Add $5 for each Joey on additional TVs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  14. Pokemon_Dad

    Pokemon_Dad Ruler of Unown UI

    1,255
    514
    Jan 19, 2008
    Silicon Valley
    There are some differences. The Fitzy folks were storing content on their own servers, they were not respecting geographic restrictions, and their client apps were doing the TVE authentication.

    Channels stores content on an individual customer's server, it includes access to the appropriate regional feeds, and because the server software does the authentication there's nothing in the client apps to potentially violate Apple/Google app rules by themselves.

    Having said that, I think the Channels developers are wisely keeping their heads down and trying not to get noticed while the lawyers' appetite is whetted, so we've seen no comments from them thus far.
     
  15. ncted

    ncted A leaf on the wind

    968
    93
    May 13, 2007
    Durham, NC
    I just cancelled DISH last fall. If you are looking for a cable replacement, it is a pretty good option. That said, it no longer provided the majority of the content we watched, so it didn't make sense for us. I wish I could get my parents to switch to DISH. Their DirecTV bill is outrageous.
     
  16. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

    3,592
    393
    Apr 2, 2005
    that explains why 1 of the 3 times I was looking at pricing last night that I was charged for the dvr. I take it that was the Hopper 3. And sounds like the same shenanigans are still present. And yeah locals looked to be present because on the 1 pricing summary I got where they charged for the dvr they had the locals at $12 and the rest at $48.

    in their conference call they mentioned the new customer acquisition cost and it was like $850. I guess that's why Charlie saw the writing on the video satellite customer wall years ago and is now all about building out a wireless network. And they think they have some advantage in not having to upgrade an old legacy wireless network like the incumbents.
     
  17. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    3,561
    1,656
    May 2, 2015
    Yeah, new customer acquisition costs are high with satellite TV. A lot of that is the professional installation for which they don't charge. It's no wonder both DISH and DTV require a 2-yr contract for new customers. I'm actually a little surprised that DISH can offer their packages at the prices they do for the first 24 months. Yes, they do jump up at the end of that period. But you've gotten a decent deal for two years. (Although it should be noted that DISH doesn't offer any of those Fox Sports RSNs any more in any of their packages.)

    The situation with DTV recently has been to offer more aggressive discounts than DISH does (relative to their regular prices) but just do it in the first year. In the second year of your contract, prices jump way up to the regular prices. We'll see if they take a similar tact with AT&T TV when it launches nationwide (probably next Wed., 2/26) or if they wisely choose a different scenario. AT&T's CEO has said over and over that, because the customer acquisition costs will be so much lower for AT&T TV than for DTV (~50% lower), they'll be able to pass along some of those savings in the form of lower pricing. And given that AT&T TV will be the immediate direct replacement for Uverse TV, and optionally bundled with AT&T Fiber, both of which only require a 1-yr contract, it seems likely to me that AT&T TV will also come with a 1-yr, rather than 2-yr contract. I also continue to think that we'll see AT&T TV offer different channel packages than DTV has offered, with HBO Max automatically included.

    That said, neither DISH nor likely AT&T TV will offer you as good an overall deal as you get now with YTTV for $50. Although, as I've said before, I expect that price will rise to $60 before long.
     
    Bigg likes this.
  18. jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

    3,116
    196
    Jan 28, 2002
    Houston
    After better than 20 years, today was the day most of our Tivo whole home system was taken down and put up for sale.

    Running a Channels DVR server, a Plex server and an Nvidia Shield on each TV. Channels has been my main source of recorded programming for about 3 months now and a couple weeks ago got the wife using it. I only have 1 tv left that is on an old Roamio and it will be decommissioned as soon as I can buy one more Shield and some network hardware to support it.

    Its been a great run. Things change.
     
    Rey, mschnebly, NashGuy and 1 other person like this.
  19. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    7,268
    757
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    It sounds like HGTV is being used for a lot of background noise. They will keep some people from cutting the cord, but eventually they will realize that $100/mo is not worth it for the some crappy Discovery channels. It's sad as Discovery used to be the crown jewel of cable. They have fallen so far.
     
    chiguy50 and ncted like this.
  20. chiguy50

    chiguy50 Well-Known Member

    1,192
    385
    Nov 9, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    I agree, however . . . as H.L. Mencken wrote many years ago:

    "No one in this world, so far as I know - and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me - has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."
     
    Bigg and WVZR1 like this.

Share This Page