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TiVo Alternatives?

98K views 1K replies 105 participants last post by  Pokemon_Dad 
#1 ·
I've been a TiVo user since the Series 1 some 18 (!) years ago. The whole point was to time-shift and skip commercials. We've had our ups and downs, but our Bolt (lifetime sub) + 3 Minis are working fine. The minis are too slow and buggy to be used for Youtube/Hulu/Netflix so we also have Roku sticks on 2 of the TVs.

If TiVo is going to start pre-roll ads the whole kit is going on E-bay and I'll need an alternative. 3-4 OTA (ATSC) tuners, 1TB DVR, view-able from an iPad and several Rokus.

Is HDHomeRun my best bet here? Most of our TV is watched pre-recorded, though I do like to start watching football games halfway in to skip all the commercials and the between-play waiting.

Auto-skip would be great, but not a deal breaker - a (responsive) 30 second skip, and 7-second back has worked fine for the last 18 years. I don't care about suggestions - just something with a reliable tuner that will record our shows and play them back ad-free.

Anything else I should consider?
 
#12 ·
Not sure about your current needs, but have you looked at streaming options as well?
We have Netflix, Hulu and Youtube Premium as well. But there's still several programs we get OTA. I'm sure I could probably find streaming options for most of them, but adding more monthly subscriptions is the exact opposite of what I want. I've always had Lifetime TiVos...
 
#9 ·
I disagree that the Amazon Recast is the best option, and I recommend reading some of the reviews from customers who purchased it.

The Amazon customer fond4tech listed the following cons.
https://www.amazon.com/Fire-TV-Recast-over-the-air-DVR-1TB-150-hours/dp/B074J1GPB8

-Program Guide only goes out a few days so your ability to set up future recordings for the first time stinks but remember there is no subscription fee so I am willing to try.

-4 tuners yes but after speaking with tech support there are only two transcoders meaning you can only view a max of two simultaneous shows.

- a very basic user interface without lots of the functionality available on TiVo like commercial skip, slow motion, frame by frame, full-featured remote controller, etc.

- No 4k Vudu app for Fire TV. The inferior workaround is you can sideload the Vudu app but I could only get HDX as my highest quality stream although I have 4k Vudu content

- The 4k video out from FireTV 4k Stick absolutely fails on my LG OLED screen. I uploaded two pictures running credits (black background / white text) of the same movie. One picture shows the "black" of the screen almost greyish while the other picture is the same movie credits but through my Roku 4K and the black is as it is supposed to be on OLED which is all true black.

Also, I think the hardware tuners from Silicon Dust (HDHomeRun products) paired with the Channels DVR, Emby or Plex software are worth looking at.

Silicon Dust Products page:
Consumer - SiliconDust
 
#18 ·
I disagree that the Amazon Recast is the best option, and I recommend reading some of the reviews from customers who purchased it.

The Amazon customer fond4tech listed the following cons.
https://www.amazon.com/Fire-TV-Recast-over-the-air-DVR-1TB-150-hours/dp/B074J1GPB8

-Program Guide only goes out a few days so your ability to set up future recordings for the first time stinks but remember there is no subscription fee so I am willing to try.

-4 tuners yes but after speaking with tech support there are only two transcoders meaning you can only view a max of two simultaneous shows.

- a very basic user interface without lots of the functionality available on TiVo like commercial skip, slow motion, frame by frame, full-featured remote controller, etc.

- No 4k Vudu app for Fire TV. The inferior workaround is you can sideload the Vudu app but I could only get HDX as my highest quality stream although I have 4k Vudu content

- The 4k video out from FireTV 4k Stick absolutely fails on my LG OLED screen. I uploaded two pictures running credits (black background / white text) of the same movie. One picture shows the "black" of the screen almost greyish while the other picture is the same movie credits but through my Roku 4K and the black is as it is supposed to be on OLED which is all true black.
Everyone has their own individual needs and priorities. None of those factors listed are important to me or would sway me to other alternatives.
 
#17 ·
Your DVR options are limited on Roku unfortunately. Highest WAF on Roku is TabloTV. There's also YouTube TV for $50/month as a cable-like option that doesn't require additional hardware.

Highest WAF overall but you'll need to switch over to Fire Sticks 4K* (~$35 each) = Channels DVR. You would also need an HDHomeRun and some kind of always-on computer (doesn't need to be especially powerful) to run the DVR. Ongoing cost is $8/mo or $80/year. This is what I'm doing. I'll probably put together a guide for it pretty soon. Their website isn't the greatest.
 
#19 · (Edited)
This is going to be a bit lengthy and detailed, only to really show how our "Tivo Alternative" experience has gone, and that we didn't just throw things at the wall to see what stuck. We did our research and we really tried out different options to get a feel for things. What works for us may not work for everyone, but this is our deal:

Some background up until now...

We'd been using Tivo since Series 3 ("Premiere HD" boxes), even earlier if you count "DirecTIVO." That changed early this year, when the writing on the wall for Tivo as a service and a company, just started becoming too clear to ignore - at least for us. They are no longer innovating in the field of home/personal TV entertainment... What they're doing is mostly clinging to a field that's shrinking (QAM cable / STB), and slowly & WAY-behind following on one that's growing (streaming TV)... and even with that, their direction is SO not clear.

To give some context, the last setup we'd used for several years, starting in 2012, was a Roamio Plus with 3 minis. Initially, it was with Verizon Fios, then we switched to Spectrum after Frontier turned Fios into a disaster. Luckily we didn't have to use an SDV tuning adapter on Spectrum, since none of our chosen channels were affected. This worked really well at first, but we started to notice the "diminished capacity" for things like Netflix and Prime Video. We tried out two different versions of the Bolt over the last year or two, and frankly, they were disappointing. They were both NOISY (that fricken little fan - like Barbie's hairdryer never turned off!), felt poorly assembled from cheap materials, and we just didn't overall see it as enough of a step above the Roamio.

Last year, our MOCA connected Minis just started freaking out. By that, I mean they became unstable. This started happening a little while after Hydra UI was rolled out. BTW, I like it - have no problem with it whatsoever... Tivo needed to evolve that UI, and we thought it was good. It's just that their hardware setups may not have been ready for it... So we needed to try a different route to deliver TV to our other rooms. It was goodbye minis, and ultimately hello to Rokus (at first, Streaming Stick Plus) early this year. That led us to trying different home setups overall, which I mentioned a few posts above.

What we chose and why we chose it...

What we settled on is a Roku Ultra in the living room, with a few Streaming Sticks for the bedroom & rec room TV's... We wanted some DVR capability for "cable" network channels, so we tried two options that had the channels we wanted: SlingTV (which we also tried with its compatible AirTV OTA DVR - it's a dud), and Spectrum's "TV Choice" service - which allows you to choose your 10 favorite networks, and also happens to give you the local channels for roughly $30/month plus $5/month for a cloud DVR option with a 50-program capacity. On both Sling and Spectrum's platforms, you can't pause or rewind Live TV - only your DVR recorded programs.

On Roku, Spectrum's app overall renders video & sound better than Sling - arguably better than Tivo's QAM, and though not perfect or glitch-free, far more stable than Sling. In most cases, you don't really "need" the DVR option because almost everything is available On-Demand the day after it airs. Yes, there are sometimes commercials when you do that (many times, there aren't any - especially the further you get away from the original air date). But there are still way less commercials than what's originally aired. So we stuck with the Spectrum option.

We combine it with a Tablo setup in the living room where our router is located, with an exterior OTA antenna. We use Spectrum's app exclusively for the "cable" channels (it's not cable anymore, but I'm not sure what else to call them) with its Cloud DVR as needed (a few programs don't always migrate to On-Demand, so it's more of a "safety net"), and we use the Tablo exclusively for the OTA channels.

Other differences....

On Roku, switching between apps - Tablo, Spectrum, Prime, Netflix, etc. - is seamless, no lag, easy-peasy. Prior to making the change, I've read many times here people saying that switching input sources on a TV to watch different platforms is no big deal - that they don't get why unitizing these services on a Roku or FireTV is important. Let me set this clear: Using a streaming platform to switch between services is FAR more intuitive, consistent feeling, easier, and more stable, than bopping around the source / input selector for your TV. It IS different, and it IS better.

Some misconceptions to bust....

Since our home network is strong, there are no issues streaming wirelessly to the other TV's via Roku. If you're going to stream wirelessly, you need a strong, stable wi-fi network. You're going to see a ton of reviews out there complaining about every stick option & every one of its apps regarding "buffering." I promise, 90% of those, it's the fault of the wifi network of the person posting - not of the app or streaming platform. And the reviews about pixelating on OTA devices, most often they're using an indoor (or even attic) antenna. Just keep that in mind.

Wrapping this up...

Overall, we're saving money. We no longer pay for monthly Tivo service or cable card fees for the Tivo box. With Tablo, there is a monthly fee of $5 for their enhanced guide service (or $50/year, $150 lifetime). It's not required, but without it, the DVR functionality is much less and guide data is reduced from 2 weeks to 24 hours. To us, it's worth it.

It's been several months, and we don't miss Tivo now, at least not in any practical non-sentimental way. Even beyond what I wrote here, there's a lot more variety to what you can watch via a Roku platform. (Fire TV, too, but not AS much - and using Fire TV is like using the Prime Video app for your entire UI experience... NOT the best for such a purpose).

I listened when Tivo announced Roku apps in January that aren't even in a "beta" phase on Roku all these months later. I waited a month or so to hear more details, and based on the last two years+ of Tivo's patterns of "talking about" paths, and then not actually going in a clear direction, I didn't have enough confidence that anything would come of that. So far, it feels like my instincts were right.

I totally get that not everyone enjoys change, and I respect the comfort that some feel in keeping with what they're used to. But I know, and I think everyone really knows deep down, that this is where the market is going. Since this brand was once such an innovator, it's a bummer that so many people got here before Tivo did.

If anyone has questions about why we chose this setup vs. FireTV/Recast, HD HomeRun via Plex, or anything else (I know, it's a LOT!) please feel free to ask.
 
#25 ·
I've been a TiVo user since the Series 1 some 18 (!) years ago. The whole point was to time-shift and skip commercials...If TiVo is going to start pre-roll ads the whole kit is going on E-bay and I'll need an alternative. 3-4 OTA (ATSC) tuners, 1TB DVR, view-able from an iPad and several Rokus.
A lot of passionate and uninformed responses to your post. I have some of those too, but I think it is best to ask you what you watch and how you watch it.

If skipping commercials and time-shifting is what you want, I love the Recast and the Tablo TV DVR. The Recast has a lot going for it, but picture quality is not one of them. If you have an ISP (necessary for both), Recast integrates some OTT programming seamlessly -- which might make your family happy.

I don't like the HDHomeRun experience, but picture quality is good.

I like YouTube's streaming package. If you are satisfied with OTA (like me), just put up an antenna and get a DVR+ off ebay.

I think most people would be most happy with a Recast, an antenna, Sony Vue, Philo TV, and a couple Prime Channels.
 
#27 ·
I'll politely disagree with some here on a point or two- my experience comes from using Tivo's (from HD platforms through Bolts), Tablo, and Recast. The Tablo is currently not active, but I have lifetime service purchased with an initial four tuner model (that I managed to break), replaced by a Tablo Dual 64.

As for picture quality:
Your best for OTA is from Tivo, as there is no transcoding or modification of the source received by your antenna. While others may have a different experience, the Amazon Recast is second- while it transcodes the video to 720P/60 (no matter the source), the upscaling applied by a good television display typically provides for a good picture quality (no OTT live channel streams, such as from Hulu Live or Sling TV are at higher resolution). Some folks have issues with the bit rate starting out low, but in my configuration the network connections are all hard-wired, so I don't see this issue. The Tablo video transcode resolution can be user adjusted, but my experience is that Tablo does not transcode SD source material very well, and seems to stumble de-interlacing some SD material, leaving lots of mouse-toothing on angular edges, as well as other artifacts. For HD sources material, Tablo performs as well as the Recast.

As for the user experience:
Provided you aren't watching more than two screens at one time, the Recast works well using the Recast tuners for both live viewing, and DVR recording. It's an easy jump between live and DVR inside the fire tv app, and the standard guide is well integrated. I've referred to this arrangement in other places as a lunar orbit system- the moon-like DVR, which is dependent upon the influence from FireTV earth, works in concert with each other, locked in a gravity embrace. That said, it only works with FireTV based systems (sticks or FireTV edition TV's).

Tablo is a planetary videosystem, and as the Tablo is more platform independent, works independent of the streaming platform used. That said, it's slow to tune changing stations, and is not as snappy as others for Channel Surfing. It can stream to up to six screens at the same time, independent of recording, as the transcoding occurs as the recording is made. If the SD video quality doesn't bother you, it's a pretty good choice, although not as tightly integrated as others.

TiVo, of course, is and wants to be the center of your viewing universe. If Tivo were to offer more OTT apps, such as Sling TV or Hulu Live (unlikely to ever happen, given Tivo's market dependence as a supplier of cable system set top boxes), it would likely be the perfect user experience. That said, to utilize non-Tivo apps requires a separate OTT source, and a change of input configurations, and different look and feel interfaces for each.

If TiVo decides to insist on pre-rolling advertising on DVR recordings I have made from OTA sources, we'd quickly shift to the Recast, full time.
 
#41 ·
Tablo is a planetary videosystem, and as the Tablo is more platform independent, works independent of the streaming platform used. That said, it's slow to tune changing stations, and is not as snappy as others for Channel Surfing. It can stream to up to six screens at the same time, independent of recording, as the transcoding occurs as the recording is made. If the SD video quality doesn't bother you, it's a pretty good choice, although not as tightly integrated as others.
I love this description of the Tablo TV DVR. It's spot on. I would only add that, with their subscription service, you get out of home viewing.
 
#30 · (Edited)
mdavej said:
Regarding Spectrum Choice, I had that package for a while and really liked it. The a la carte aspect made it pretty much the perfect package for me. It even worked fine with my lifetime Tivo. But they kept raising the "broadcast fee" every year. When it went over $10, that was the last straw. So I cut the cord and went with OTA plus DirecTV NOW (similar to Sling, PS Vue, Youtube TV, Hulu Live, etc.). But they keep doing insane price increases as well, so I'll probably drop them eventually too.
That fee is running around $6 on our bill, and I included it in the per-month cost I described. And HOW I wish I could "delete that as an option," because we literally don't need Spectrum to deliver those OTA channels to us. But the way it totals right now, the Spectrum Choice package is still a better deal than Sling or any other OTT service, as far as the actual channels they make available and what we subscribe to. We'd actually lose one of those 10 if we went with Sling.

tapokata said:
Amazon Recast is second- while it transcodes the video to 720P/60 (no matter the source), the upscaling applied by a good television display typically provides for a good picture quality (no OTT live channel streams, such as from Hulu Live or Sling TV are at higher resolution). Some folks have issues with the bit rate starting out low, but in my configuration the network connections are all hard-wired, so I don't see this issue. The Tablo video transcode resolution can be user adjusted, but my experience is that Tablo does not transcode SD source material very well, and seems to stumble de-interlacing some SD material, leaving lots of mouse-toothing on angular edges, as well as other artifacts. For HD sources material, Tablo performs as well as the Recast.
I'll actually second that sentence. SD doesn't look that great on Tablo via Roku. But to be honest, the only SD channel that it is ever set to in our house - and it's like "background, I'm doing the dishes" TV - would be Buzzr (the retro game show channel) with Match Game playing. I'm the Los Angeles TV market. Pretty much everything we personally watch is available in HD, and it renders and operates really well for us on every TV (just fyi, that's through ethernet-wired Roku Ultra on a 4K HDR Vizio in our living room, and the wifi streaming plus sticks on three 1080's in other rooms).

tapokata said:
Provided you aren't watching more than two screens at one time, the Recast works well using the Recast tuners for both live viewing, and DVR recording.
That is another poor spot for us with Recast - that you can't watch more than two Recast streams at one time. As you said, Tablo is capable of six. But there are so many out there who won't ever have an issue with that.

Really, I feel like the Recast was made for people who are already in the FireTV ecosystem and enjoy that. We use Prime Video through the Roku pretty often, and we like the UI environment for that purpose... But using that structure as FireTV's home UI for navigating through different apps, and coming out of Tivo's user experience, Roku's home UI just feels more user-friendly and less chaotic.

tapokata said:
Tablo is more platform independent, works independent of the streaming platform used. That said, it's slow to tune changing stations, and is not as snappy as others for Channel Surfing.
Let's just spotlight that elephant in the room: No streaming option is going to satisfy the need to flip through channels. Not Recast, Not Tablo... I didn't find a noticeable difference in their load times (5 seconds, maybe 7 on a wifi). But even if I did, I couldn't in good conscience say one is better than the other at channel surfing, because neither works for that purpose. Nothing via any streaming option. I'm just being upfront, not judging: If this is a need that one can't live without, there isn't a streaming solution for it... definitely stick with a Tivo or other non-streamer option.
 
#35 ·
I'm actually really surprised that Recast and Tablo re-encode OTA. I figured all DVRs just dumped the OTA stream to disk, but I suppose realtime encoding is cheap enough that they can do it and increase # of hours per TB, so why not? Still seems strange, given how cheap disk space is these days.
 
#40 ·
I should note that my current setup (TiVo Bolt w/lifetime + 3 TiVo minis) costs me $0 per month and I intend to keep it that way. I don't mind upfront costs, but for whatever reason monthly subscriptions drive me crazy*. I have cable Internet, so no need for anything exotic.

* Yes, I realize this sometimes doesn't make sense, particularly if the upfront costs don't pay for themselves over time, but that hasn't yet been the case, despite paying TiVo 3 times to transfer my "lifetime" sub (S1 -> S3 -> Bolt).
 
#47 ·
I'm seriously thinking about trying Channels Plus with TV Everywhere and HDHomeRun. I like how it works with HDHomerun tuners, and Channels TV Everywhere integrates cable providers and streaming providers into one lineup that can be recorded and managed. Not to mention that I can have tons of storage with a NAS. If I get this all set up and working I may ditch Tivo down the road.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if Tivo was like Channels and could integrate OTA and streaming providers into the same channel lineup to browse and record?
 
#50 ·
I'm looking at that too. Apparently the HD HomeRun box that supports cable, Prime 6, is not yet available. The website promises it in 2019, so we may see it sometime between now and December 25th.

Last year I helped someone else set up a basic OTA solution with the Connect Duo, and it worked like magic. Thanks to posts here I've learned of Channels, and that takes it to a whole new level.

Channels looks better than the HD HomeRun DVR solution, but I'll compare them again as the date approaches for my next annual renewal of TiVo service. I could just upgrade the hard disk on my Lifetime TiVo box to replace the annual service box instead. Just depends how the whole pre-roll advertising thing shakes out I guess.
 
#48 ·
Would it be possible to auto transfer and transcode content from a Tivo to a Plex installation such that all Tivo recordings show up in a Plex library? I know kmttg has some level of automation but can it handle auto renaming and placement? Still, even if I got this to work, it would be hours after a show ends before it would show up in Plex so useless for evening news or other daily local shows.
 
#51 ·
The main thing I think when reading this thread is how much it sucks having to go back to old technology to get a workable solution because Tivo is forcing our hand. I ran a Windows Media Center DVR with HD HomeRun Primes (and Cetons) nearly a decade ago. It worked better than Tivo does today, until they switched to a Rovi guide. But it was a pain having so many different components to maintain, hence my switch to Tivo. Fast forward to today, now Tivo will soon be full of forced ads, taking them back off the table of acceptable solutions. I may as well drag my old WMC system back out and plug in my old Primes again.

@pokemon, don't hold your breath on the 6-tuner. Silicon Dust has been promising it for at least 4 years now (HDHomeRun DVR). It's never going to happen. Just get two Primes or one old 6-tuner Ceton. I still have a couple of 6 and 4 tuner Cetons in my closet.

There is no comparison between Channels and HD HomeRun's DVR. It's like comparing a Ferrari to a tricycle. The moment you pull up the HD HomeRun guide, you'll want to throw a hammer at your TV. Don't even bother.

Question for those seeking alternatives. Would you still keep Tivo if there were no pre-roll ads, but ads in the grid guide instead?
 
#55 ·
Question for those seeking alternatives. Would you still keep Tivo if there were no pre-roll ads, but ads in the grid guide instead?
I don't care about the ads so much as having a BSC. Gold star ads & pause ads never bothered me either. I'm afraid that TiVo will find a really slow server and it will get slower as more users get the software.
 
#52 ·
I'm going full steam ahead with Channels DVR with TVEverywhere and HDHomerun on Fios. The only thing I have to decide is whether I want to use Cablecard with a HDHomerun Prime3 or get a HDHomerun Connect.

The TVEverywhere "tuner" for Channels with Verizon Fios gives me all channels that I watch/record regularly except for 8. Six of those are local OTA stations and two are History Channel and HBO - both of which have their own streaming apps with all of their content libraries available so I don't really need live TV/DVR for those.

I may very well never be hit by the preroll ads (I'm still on TE3 and don't intend to upgrade), but for me this whole incident has opened my eyes to the state of the art outside of Tivo. I've been using channels since Friday and I am impressed. So far I'm only using the TVEverywhere for Fios, but I really like the experience.

To me, I don't see it as a significant step backward. I like the video server/client model - that's what I've been doing with my Roamio Pro in the wiring closet and Minis at the TVs for years.

In many ways, what Channels has achieved with their TVEverywhere client seems like the next generation and a model for 3rd party DVRs in the age of IPTV and streaming.
 
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