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Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by Tom Whitlow, Jun 14, 2009.
I disagree. Tivo is offering free MVR on the boxes that you pay for. Why do you think that the other companies are even doing it at all now? As far as Dish, Comcast, and Verizon go... you're paying for each box one way or another.... check your bill.
Agreed... and at least as far as Comcast is concerned, multiple TiVos is cheaper.
Well my math works out a little different. TiVo does NOT offer free MRV on any box. You start out by signing up for Comcast. My Comcast is over $100.00 a month (but it includes the phone and broadband). Then, you must buy the TiVo box which for a HD XL is not a lightweight purchase. Next, you have to pay for the activation - also not just free. Then, you have to buy the second box (at least an S3 or HD if you want HD). And last, to really clean your clock, TiVO requires you to purchase a SECOND activation. All of this so you can get free MRV? You can use the Dish DVR with MRV for YEARS before it would cost more.
I don't trust those of you who are weighing in here that TiVO is providing a fair deal when charging a separate activation fee for additional units to be used on the same home network. I smell a TiVo stakeholder.
Or perhaps they are Microsoft stakeholders - Microsoft charges for additional units used on the same home network. Or Norton Antivirus stakeholders. Or Verizon wireless stakeholders, Or Comcast stakeholders. Or one of hundreds of consumer software provider stakeholders.
There are a lot more individual software license providers out there than there are household license providers.
That is total BS. You're expecting Tivo to give you a second box for free and to boot you expect them to give you free service and MRV. Come on, you really can't expect that for free... are you serious???? I think this is another class action lawsuit in the making.
Tivo screwed me by not giving me free service. The audacity of a company wanting to stay in business by offering services of value to someone.
I don't think that Tivo should subsidize the fact that you are having your entertainment at a premium price ($100 for phone, cable, and broadband). Sure that might seem to be a good deal to you but to me it's overpriced fluff. You're getting a crap load of channels that you really don't watch.
Tell me what Comcast will charge you for each box. I know that TWC charges $12 per month for each box and that's not much cheaper than Tivo. If it's so much cheaper for a Comcast box then just do that already.
Then stop bitching and do that.
I don't trust a person that wants everything for free. A person that thinks that a company is in business to provide them a free service... that's a person that can't be trusted.
I don't think that wishing there was a small, non-recording client deivce is unreasonable. Basically a stand-alone MRV device that only streams (i.e. no hard drive or tuners/recorders).
That's a different thing entirely but the OP seemed to think it should all be free. It would still be a box that they would have to pay for. But they would need to have a paid Tivo box on the local network to have any streaming functionality. Not sure that it would be something that Tivo would be interested in.
What you're describing.... it's called a SlingBox.
Why not just use a slingbox? That makes better sense to me. That's what sling is designed for and that's what the company does. Tivo could do something similar but why do that when sling does it.
FiOS charges extra for MRV. Their DVR will stream to a regular STB but that feature isn't activated unless you pay an extra monthly fee.
Tivo still subsidies hardware. Selling an box without a subsidy would probably negate all, or most, of the savings from deleting the tuners and reducing the size of the hard drive. Include the cost for R&D and support and I'm sure the unit would cost more then a regular tivo. Many people can find use for two additional tuners. I suspect the market for such a product is extremely limited. I'm sure tivo can find better ways to allocate their resources.
For now you'll have to try a sling box or PC type of solution.
You can't purchase a subsidized cell phone without a service comittment. Tivo has the same policy. How much extra would you pay for a tivo that could be used for MRV, but without a subscription.
Tom... here's my math:
2 DVR's with Comcast
$16/month x 2 + $6 additional outlet fee + taxes = $39
No MRV, no TTG, no BTT; no extras at all except ridiculously priced PPV.
2 DVR's with TiVo
1.79/month x 2 + tax (cable cards) + 18.61/month (TiVo Service) = $22.25
Includes MRV, TTG, BTT, expandable storage, and many more extras.
Yes this does not include the $400+ I spent for the two TiVos, but at a $17/month savings over Comcast DVR's they will pay for themselves in a couple of years and I own them.
So sorry, I just don't see your point (and no, I am not a shill for TiVo).
Please explain and give the source of your figures above. I spent more than $400.00 for just ONE TiVo (HD XL) - comparable to my old SA 8300 (HD) provided for $15.00 per month from Comcast. TiVo makes you BUY the equipment and still charges you the monthly service fee. I did NOT have to pay anything (except the monthly service fee) for the Comcast DVR. Two HD TiVos is a lot more expensive than the $400 you quote! I guess you must be satisfied with SD. I'm comparing the cost for HD! I agree, though that TiVo is cheaper than Comcast for MRV - that's why I switched to TiVO. And, what are you talking about regarding $1.79 a month for TiVo?
You didn't read my earlier posts closely. I was comparing TiVo to Dish (clearly stated) who does provide MRV at a reasonable cost without any extra equipment costs. I could still bail from TiVo and switch to Dish. I feel that TiVo is overcharging when they require you to pay for an additional activation for multiple units to be used via MRV across the same home network. My cellphone company (ATT) does NOT require me to purchase an entire additional service plan when I add a new phone and line. I don't mind buying the equipment. I DO mind being charged TWICE for the same TiVo service (activation) when I only need one of them (shared) on my home network. You should've went to work for GM - maybe you could've explained their pricing to us and saved them!
then use your phone for recording shows or your network of computers.
You admit to not knowing about options but then also say TiVo should just forgo the MSD sub on a second TiVo box and loose out on a lot of subs. How is that a smart plan for TiVo. Note - it does not gain more sales for TiVo but less - I am reasonably sure that it was less sales that did GM in.
If TiVo sis make a subless client that did not record - they would likeloy have to sell it for 300 to 500$ - right now you could get a TiVo HD with lifetimje for 500$ and not pay anything else again and get the 'client' you want without monthly payment - will you do that?
Also you can use a PC with media center to pull shows from the TiVo HD and watch them in HD assuming the right kind of hardware in the PC to hook to the TV display.
Its my understanding that Slingbox will NOT do MRV - that is unless you watch TV in your bedroom on a computer or laptop. Don't you also need a Slingcatcher in order to dor MRV? I believe you missed my point or oversimplified the solution.
Why do I need to buy all this extra equipment so I can use the TiVo service I already paid for on the TiVo units I already paid for in my own home using my own home network? Why do they gouge me for an extra activation fee for the second unit?
Thank you!! You understood all I was asking for. Many others wanted to come to the rescue of poor TiVo. Years ago we used to pay several dollars a minute for the same long distance service we now get for only pennies per minute. Yet the phone companies are still pulling in good profits. TiVo would not suffer because we're allowed to share one TiVo on our home network using a non-recording streamer unit. That's all I ever asked for. Like I said earlier, there is something suspect about those who try to defend TiVo on this subject.
My recent Comcast bills (pre TiVo).
Yup... and the fees for two add up to $39/month in my market.
I bought a TiVo HD from Amazon for 221.74 with free shipping, the other from my local Sears for $199.00.
Please reread my post carefully... the 1.79/month was for cable cards.
The post I partially quoted and responded to specifically and "clearly" mentioned Comcast.
Yes, but your plan went up unless you were already paying more for a multi phone/line plan (at least that is the way it works here). TiVo provides discounts on service plans for multiple units.
Possibly... if the folks that are there now have the same problem you seem to be having parsing the simple and factual numbers I provided.
Tivo is pretty clear current hardware requires a subscription. The hardware price reflects that requirement. Sorry but you're trying to take advantage of subsidized hardware without paying a subscription fee.
It would be reasonable to suggest tivo should offer a reduced subscription price if a customer only wants to use a tivo as a MRV client. It would be reasonable to suggest tivo offer a new box that could be used as a MRV, without a subscription fee. Many of us think such a box, without subscription revenue, might cost more then current tivo's. It would be reasonable to suggest tivo offer a one time subscription price, to offset hardware subsidise, if a customer wants to activate the unit as a MRV client.
Why do you think you should be able to use subsidized hardware without paying the subscription fee that's part of the deal?
TiVo subsidizes hardware? What TiVo literature did you get that from? No way that's true.
I believe that TiVo could "update", via software, the second TiVo to become a streaming unit only. No R&D required for hardware. Just a software development. They can probably already do it - but why would they? Customers like you aren't asking for it and the competition (Dish, Comcast in Miami and Verizon) are just starting to provide it.
In answer to your last question: I would pay about $200 to buy a "streaming only" unit - that didn't require any additional activation fee. How long have you worked for TiVo?
Wow! You really know nothing about TiVo. Yes, TiVo subsidizes hardware. They always have. The subsidy is now quite a bit less than in past years, but overall they still lose millions of dollars on the hardware every month.
In the 3 months ended April 30, they earned $6.4 million in hardware revenue and spent $10.6 million on hardware revenue. Those are certified accounting numbers.
See any quarterly report for the past 9 years. Latest one
Edit: Sorry, I was wrong, the last quarter figures are not certified audited figures yet. You'll have to go back to the last annual report to get the audited numbers. But they never change.
Then by all means build one. The device your talking about (just like a TiVo) is a micro-computer, able to access data on your network, and decode it into a video stream that can be output to a display.
Good luck putting one together for $200 in hardware costs though. The good news is that you won't also have to foot the staggering bill for a team of engineers to develop the software to instruct the hardware to do this as TiVo and various other third parties have already done this for you.
I don't work for tivo. Verizon charges about $5/month extra to add the home media option to your FiOS DVR. There is no hardware upgrade required, just a software update to your existing box. Tivo charges $99 /year for full DVR functionality.
The subscription requirement is one of the factors in determining tivo pricing.
Cell phones generally come with subscription requirements.
I don't know if tivo can profitably sell a MRV client box for $200. I don't think they'd sell enough units to produce any volume savings from production costs.