TiVo, a leader in failure?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by DAccardi, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. Feb 6, 2009 #1 of 104
    DAccardi

    DAccardi Tivo Special Member

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    "But the most thoughtful analysis so far may be the one posted Thursday morning at Roughly Drafted Magazine by Daniel Eran Dilger, who looks at what Apple should — and perhaps more important, shouldn’t — do with Apple TV.

    “Analysts have voiced a lot of terrible ideas that would actually dismantle or saddlebag Apple TV,” he writes, “converting it from a fun hobby into a burdensome money pit failure.”

    Here, in thumbnail form, are his take on what he calls some of the worst ideas:

    Add a DVR, perhaps by buying up TiVo. “The only thing worse than jumping into a dead market long after the lights have been turned out is buying out the leading failure in the market in order to do so.”

    Quote from
    http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/02/05/can-apple-save-hollywood/

    Hmmm, any thoughts on that? I thought TiVo was going on the path to success.
     
  2. Feb 6, 2009 #2 of 104
    berkshires

    berkshires New Member

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    If apple advertised TiVos the way they advertise iTouch/Phone... think of the possibilities.
     
  3. Feb 6, 2009 #3 of 104
    DAccardi

    DAccardi Tivo Special Member

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    1. Commercial showing TiVo in an all white background, revolving on a podium with zoom ins and an added shiny paint

    OR

    2. 2 guys one looking really nerdy the other like a guy in college making funny quirky remarks about how the TiVo can whoop a cable DVR's butt.


    Kidding around. :)
     
  4. Feb 6, 2009 #4 of 104
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    enough said there on the experts you quote.

    anyhow - umm, Apple has figured out how to sell TV shows. Why they would even think about working on or buying something to record them for free instead is just not understandable by me.

    DVR market has always been a tough sale as it does not have an immediate uptake in oh, I really need that, until after you have it. The fact that TiVo has weathered many storms, kept investors interested in the company, switched over to a more business oriented direction at a key moment, always been on the winning side in court, has positive cash flow and a pile of money versus a pile of debt - makes TiVo a fighter, not a failure.
     
  5. Feb 6, 2009 #5 of 104
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    people overlayed in wild colors dancing around their TiVo in a Rhapsody/TiVo joint commercial?

    ETA You know another thing just hit me - kids buy/get iPods because it is portable and fine by tjhe parents. iPhones are similarly a singular device for the big kids;) A DVR though is stationary and changes how the whole family watches TV. Even if the nextGenners all want a DVR, the parents who are not concerned about it are not as likely to go along. So either the family has some disposable income and the kid(S) get(s) a TV and DVR for his viewing area or else resorts to a PC if that is available instead. I know if I was in college now I would make the PC do the DVR work for my must see shows as it less to haul around whne moving between semesters and one less thing to pay for. I might ask for a TiVo for a present but at 500$ to have lifetime my parent's back in the day would have had a good laugh.

    With DVR the problem may well be you gotta sell cool, hip tech to fogeys.
     
  6. Feb 6, 2009 #6 of 104
    DAccardi

    DAccardi Tivo Special Member

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    Wasnt that cashflow almost all from the lawsuit they won?

    EDIT: what would their bank account look like minus the lawsuit money?
     
  7. Feb 6, 2009 #7 of 104
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    what would their bank account look like if DISH had made a deal instead of willfully infringing?
     
  8. Feb 6, 2009 #8 of 104
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Not has good as it would have look if dish had paid TiVo for their property instead of stealing it and forcing TiVo to win partial payment through a court settlement.

    Thanks,
     
  9. Feb 6, 2009 #9 of 104
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    ZeoTivo - looks like great minds think alike:D

    Thanks,
     
  10. Feb 6, 2009 #10 of 104
    DAccardi

    DAccardi Tivo Special Member

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    That got me thinking, and actually I think they are doing it or something like it, they should license the software to be used on computers. And that is probably that NeroLiquid software. That is a goodway to stay with that younger generation even when they move to laptops. Right?
     
  11. Feb 6, 2009 #11 of 104
    DAccardi

    DAccardi Tivo Special Member

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    Also, what would their account look like without winning a lawsuit, seriously, what did the TiVo itself actually earn. I'm not interested in what if and imagine that.
     
  12. Feb 6, 2009 #12 of 104
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    Nero liquid PC has a very nice TiVo implementation. Cable Card support is not the same in a PC and I do not think it has QAM mapping either.
    once a PC enters the equation then why buy TiVo and pay monthly versus using open source or the media center that comes on most any PC bought nowadays. Competing against Cable company DVRs is tough. Competing against free is just pointless.
     
  13. Feb 6, 2009 #13 of 104
    DAccardi

    DAccardi Tivo Special Member

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    Then TiVo screwed up in making NeroLiquidTV? It will be a bust?

    http://www.nero.com/enu/liquidtv-introduction.html

    EDIT: Nevrmind you answered it, yes, it was dumb of TiVo to do this, there competition is free.
     
  14. Feb 6, 2009 #14 of 104
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I think that was the general feeling in this forum. There were some fairly long threads about it's merits sometime back seems like I remember much more negative than positive comments.

    Thanks,
     
  15. Feb 6, 2009 #15 of 104
    Test

    Test Well-Known Member

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    So you're asking what if tivo didn't win the lawsuit? :)
     
  16. Feb 6, 2009 #16 of 104
    DAccardi

    DAccardi Tivo Special Member

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    Fox News forum, if it offends our guy, we dont report it. Cant believe everyone is dodging it.:thumbsdown: Seriously, I would like to know what the TiVo hardware earned for the year and not what the lawsuit sent into the bank account. No what ifs now. :)
     
  17. Feb 6, 2009 #17 of 104
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Well actually I am guessing Nero/Tivo consider the competition to be SnapStream/Beyond TV and SageTV neither of which is free or offers all the potential benefits that a Nero/Tivo product does. That said liquidtv does not appear to be currently living up to its potential and the fact that it doesn't work with Hauppauge's USB HD PVR is a big big minus in my mind.

    Thanks,
     
  18. Feb 6, 2009 #18 of 104
    fallingwater

    fallingwater New Member

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    What's different about Echostar's DVR technology than all the others? Why is Echostar the only DVR maker who's been sued by TiVo?

    TiVo makes excellent products which are 'more than a DVR'. Echostar makes excellent products which are nothing (little?) more than a DVR.

    Echostar is a far larger company than TiVo with the resources to pay the judgement. Echostar's DVRs benefit all DVR users because they compete with TiVo and offer 'sixpack' DVR features which TiVo doesn't.
     
  19. Feb 6, 2009 #19 of 104
    ah30k

    ah30k Well-Known Member

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    Take a look at their earnings report. They clearly separate continuing operations from special events such as litigation proceeds. They have not yet reported Q4, but looking at Q3, despite collecting on their first installment, they actually have NEGATIVE net earnings from litigation. They report collecting $105m and had an earnings of $100m so you can do the math.

    edit - dyslexic again 105m not 150m
     
  20. Feb 6, 2009 #20 of 104
    fallingwater

    fallingwater New Member

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    http://investor.tivo.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=350732

    TiVo received compensation in the amount of approximately $105 million in initial litigation damages from EchoStar

    Net Income for the third quarter was $100.6 million compared to a loss of ($8.3) million in the year-ago quarter. Excluding the EchoStar damages award net loss would have been ($0.9) million.
     

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