The Tivo Mini lives....

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by dave13077, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. Mar 4, 2013 #1461 of 1620
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what most or maybe any other people are thinking. But I make the assumption that when someone is looking at adding a Mini they have already decided they are continuing with Cable TV and are looking for a whole home solution for Cable TV.

    I think many of us believe the Mini could cost less, I think there will be bundled specials but don't know if they will run sales on stand alone Minis or not.

    Yes the number of cable TV household is down but it is still at about 60 million. Not a bad market to be shooting for. Plus the reality is many people using IP Steaming use it to supplement Pay TV not to replace it.

    For those who are cutting the traditional cable/satellite cord they have basically three alternative sources of content (1) Over The Air (OTA) broadcast TV, (2) IP Streaming (3) Solid media. This is where TiVo has failed fairly badly. TiVo offers a OTA DVR but so far only dual tuners and they are not offering a lower cost whole home solution that includes Minis. Their IP streaming abilities are only fair and devices like Roku put them to same. And they have dumped solid media completely.

    If TiVo where trying to capture the cord cutting households they would be offering a combo Blu-ray/4 tuner OTA DVR with IP Streaming as good as a Roku that supported Minis. They would also offer a combo Mini/blu-ray player. But I know we are not going to see any of it. So I just hope the next DVR hardware upgrade still covers OTA and continues to improve IP streaming.
     
  2. Mar 4, 2013 #1462 of 1620
    jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    I'm pretty sure you're wrong :)

    TiVo is not abandoning OTA users. The Q/Elite/Premiere4 exists because the cable partners wanted more tuners and no OTA support. The current hardware design provides for a total of 4 tuners, but to include OTA that would limit cable to 2, which is of no use to the MSOs.

    I would be stunned if the next generation did not include a box that supports OTA in some configuration. I'm betting that there will be a multi tuner OTA/cable box in addition to any cable-only models.

    And I'll bet the use of a Mini will be possible with any OTA host. It's very easy for TiVo to continue to effectively own the OTA DVR market - they aren't just going to abandon it.
     
  3. Mar 4, 2013 #1463 of 1620
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    You had me until Blu-ray. I have no use for a Blu-ray player as I don't buy or rent physical media. I support the streaming or downloading content. I don't want to deal with yet another physical media format that will only last a few years.
     
  4. Mar 4, 2013 #1464 of 1620
    ssimps0n

    ssimps0n New Member

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    They are capturing the under-served cable customers. From my limited research on the subject Verizon seems to have much better features, etc than most. I am stuck with Cox. Their DVR and whole home solution are terrible. I am looking to replace their boxes ($50/mth). I can do so with Tivo with around a two year break even. Tivo offers me many more features, much better interface, 4 tuners, larger storage, etc. I have been using the Cox DVR's for many many years so the 2 years seems like a bargain. Add to that the Stream and now Mini I feel like I am getting a huge leap in performance/features. Yes I have a larger upfront cost but am cutting $50/mth.

    Purchased the XL4/Stream and hooked up over the weekend. Now awaiting the mini. (Night and day difference from my old setup). Also able to setup MOCA network for all of the other devices in my HT setup. Several birds killed here.
     
  5. Mar 4, 2013 #1465 of 1620
    NYHeel

    NYHeel Well-Known Member

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    I hate to interrupt this extremely relevant topic of what a Roku could theoretically do but I have a quick question on the Mini. With all this talk about Moca, I just wanted to confirm that I can still run the Mini with just a Cat-6 line and no Coax connection is needed at all. I have some locations in my house with CAt-6 wiring but no Coax.
     
  6. Mar 4, 2013 #1466 of 1620
    DaveDFW

    DaveDFW Member

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    Yes, the Mini includes a traditional RJ45 connector for ethernet. Use of MoCA is optional.
     
  7. Mar 4, 2013 #1467 of 1620
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Mini has an ethernet port so you are all set. Coax is only needed for MoCA.
     
  8. Mar 4, 2013 #1468 of 1620
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    If I could actually stream HD media I might be more inclined to give up blu-ray.

    But even if I could stream HD content high quality brand name blu-ray players with very good IP streaming can be purchased for under a $100. The savings in renting the best quality move from Red Box versus streaming nearly as good HD from Vudu pays for the player in about 35 movies.
     
  9. Mar 4, 2013 #1469 of 1620
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    You can download 1080p content from Amazon directly to your Tivo.

    RedBox is great for what it is, but the downsides are obvious: poor selection (compared to local rental outlet or Netflix streaming), you are on the clock to watch and return or keep paying by the day, and you support the continued physical media structure. Don't forget when you show up at a Redbox to just return a disc and the person (or persons) in front of you take forever to decide which movie to rent. Redbox is inconvenient unless you already stop by a box on a daily basis -- who goes to Walgreens or the grocery story daily?

    I'll take lower quality HD streaming or Amazon downloads over Redbox any day. Convenience is what I value.
     
  10. Mar 4, 2013 #1470 of 1620
    jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Does anyone know yet what outlets will have the Mini for sale on Wednesday?

    I tried to find out from my local Best Buy if they will have it, but couldn't get much help from a CSR who insisted they already had it in stock and could buy it today (she was referring to the TiVo Stream, which I confirmed by the SKU).

    So glad this marketing partnership with Best Buy is working so well ...
     
  11. Mar 4, 2013 #1471 of 1620
    compnurd

    compnurd Well-Known Member

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    lol you expected good info from best buy
     
  12. Mar 4, 2013 #1472 of 1620
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I pretty much agree completely. Everything you said about Redbox is certainly true, I only use Redbox when it makes sense for me (I have 3 Redboxes locally) and I normally reserve on line ahead of time to remove some of the hassle.

    Amazon downloads are the only way I can reliably do HD unfortunately I have also had several failures with Amazon downloads that required more time messing around getting the movie again than what I would have liked. Oh well everything has +s and -s.
     
  13. Mar 4, 2013 #1473 of 1620
    jmpage2

    jmpage2 Active Member

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    Streaming is nowhere near the picture quality of Blu-ray, especially with larger size televisions were artifacts, edge enhancement and other symptoms of over-compression are more obvious.

    And audio quality.... most streaming at best does low bitrate DD 5.1 or 640kbps DTS. HD audio, with a good surround sound system blows that crap out of the water.
     
  14. Mar 4, 2013 #1474 of 1620
    jmpage2

    jmpage2 Active Member

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    I don't think Wednesday is even confirmed for retail availability. For all we know it will only be available for pre-order on Wednesday.

    If someone leaks a SKU number then you will be able to determine if your local BB will have it that day.
     
  15. Mar 4, 2013 #1475 of 1620
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    I could also see it being initially only available from TiVo.

    Best Buy usually has the page up for products just before launch with a crazy price, and we haven't seen one yet. There is also no Amazon or third party listing.

    Didn't the Stream take a bit to show up at Best Buy?

    Also with the Mini requiring the 4, XL4 or Elite, I could see it being only at Magnolia stores.
     
  16. Mar 4, 2013 #1476 of 1620
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I see the option is there for the Mini in the drop down menu when you select "SHOP" on TiVo.com. But when you select the mini it says it can't find the page. So I guess it's ready to go, they just need to activate the page so you can see the option to purchase the mini.

    I plan on waiting for BestBuy to get it since I will be using gift cards from there.

    At least there is a TiVo Mini section now here at TiVo Community.

    EDIT: And now TiVo.com changed things. I don't see a Mini listed on the drop down menu any more
     
  17. Mar 4, 2013 #1477 of 1620
    jmpage2

    jmpage2 Active Member

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    The Stream was up for pre-order a few days before the retail availability and like the Mini required the XL4/Elite.

    It launched at retail with a "soft launch" which didn't really do much to advertise it, this in part might have been due to the fact that it needed the XL4/Elite, like the Mini.

    I highly doubt the Mini will be retail available Wednesday, or even this week honestly. Perhaps TiVo will soft launch it on their website later this week with shipping in a week or two.
     
  18. Mar 4, 2013 #1478 of 1620
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall seeing anything about the Stream requiring an XL4 at launch. People would have complained to high heaven.

    Tivo had a pre-order contest for the Stream. They received their pre-orders on the day of general Tivo.com availability (Sept 6?). Retail availability (3rd parties on Amazon, BB) was around a few weeks to a month later.
     
  19. Mar 4, 2013 #1479 of 1620
    jmpage2

    jmpage2 Active Member

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    Sorry, my mistake, I for some reason was under the impression that the stream required the XL4 or Elite, apparently it does not.

    Even then, stream was pretty well "soft launched".
     
  20. Mar 4, 2013 #1480 of 1620
    lgerbarg

    lgerbarg New Member

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    My point about it having the hardware is not that you can share pieces of the h.264 and mpeg-2 pipelines (though in some cases you can since they are both iDCT based codecs). My point is that a lot of the video IP you can buy does both, and to rip out the MPEG2 parts involves substantial revisions to the decoder softcore that simply don't tend to make sense when you are laying out an SoC. Admittedly, ripping it out *might* make sense for Apple who has a bespoke SoC for their devices, but it would not make any sense for a merchant SoC (OMAP, Tegra, etc).

    As for software, on ARM you need decently written NEON code, but you are greatly over estimating the computational complexity of MPEG-2. I don't know what is wrong with your 3.6Ghz AMD, but my 2.6Ghz quad core Intel decodes 1080p MPEG-2 reference streams at over 350FPS (or approximately ~90FPS per core, in other words, way faster than realtime).

    Code:
    ffmpeg  -i ~/Downloads/newmobcal1920_18mbps.ts  -f rawvideo - > /dev/null 
    ffmpeg version 1.1 Copyright (c) 2000-2013 the FFmpeg developers
      built on Mar  4 2013 16:54:03 with Apple LLVM version 4.2 (clang-425.0.24) (based on LLVM 3.2svn)
      configuration: --prefix=/usr/local/Cellar/ffmpeg/1.1 --enable-shared --enable-pthreads --enable-gpl --enable-version3 --enable-nonfree --enable-hardcoded-tables --enable-avresample --cc=cc --host-cflags= --host-ldflags= --enable-libx264 --enable-libfaac --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libxvid
      libavutil      52. 13.100 / 52. 13.100
      libavcodec     54. 86.100 / 54. 86.100
      libavformat    54. 59.106 / 54. 59.106
      libavdevice    54.  3.102 / 54.  3.102
      libavfilter     3. 32.100 /  3. 32.100
      libswscale      2.  1.103 /  2.  1.103
      libswresample   0. 17.102 /  0. 17.102
      libpostproc    52.  2.100 / 52.  2.100
    Input #0, mpegts, from '/Users/louis/Downloads/newmobcal1920_18mbps.ts':
      Duration: 00:01:00.70, start: 1.746644, bitrate: 19524 kb/s
      Program 1 
        Stream #0:0[0x31]: Video: mpeg2video (Main) ([2][0][0][0] / 0x0002), yuv420p, 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 90k tbn, 59.94 tbc
        Stream #0:1[0x32]: Audio: ac3 ([129][0][0][0] / 0x0081), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 384 kb/s
    Output #0, rawvideo, to 'pipe:':
      Metadata:
        encoder         : Lavf54.59.106
        Stream #0:0: Video: rawvideo (I420 / 0x30323449), yuv420p, 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], q=2-31, 200 kb/s, 90k tbn, 29.97 tbc
    Stream mapping:
      Stream #0:0 -> #0:0 (mpeg2video -> rawvideo)
    Press [q] to stop, [?] for help
    [mpeg2video @ 0x7fab8a03ac00] warning: first frame is no keyframe
    ac-tex damaged at 74 66.0 size= 5309550kB time=00:00:58.32 bitrate=745750.3kbits/s    
    [mpeg2video @ 0x7fab8a03ac00] Warning MVs not available
    [mpeg2video @ 0x7fab8a03ac00] concealing 240 DC, 240 AC, 240 MV errors in B frame
    frame= 1821 fps=348 q=0.0 Lsize= 5531288kB time=00:01:00.76 bitrate=745750.2kbits/s    
    video:5531288kB audio:0kB subtitle:0 global headers:0kB muxing overhead 0.000000%
    
    You don't need to take my word for it, there are several vendors that will happily sell you MPEG-2 decoding middleware for ARM.
     

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