The Tivo Mini lives....

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by dave13077, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. Mar 3, 2013 #1441 of 1620
    crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    Yep, another "winner" strategy. Let's discontinue the great Slide product and yet have nothing to replace it yet. DUH.
     
  2. Mar 3, 2013 #1442 of 1620
    crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    Um. No. Absolutely not.

    I guarantee the Roku's CPU is nowhere NEAR fast enough to decode HD MPEG2 in software. If the support is not in the GPU chipset for hardware decoding, it ain't gonna happen. And almost none of the chipsets support MPEG2, because it is considered obsolete (and has been for a long time).
     
  3. Mar 3, 2013 #1443 of 1620
    jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Sam, what is your estimate of canibilization/churn as a result of the Mini? How many Premiere subs will be lost due to new Mini subs?

    I plan to buy two Mini's with lifetime, but will sell one Base Premiere with Lifetime. I'm sure there are some that were going to buy an additional Premiere or Elite, but will now buy a Mini instead.

    I'm not sure I see how the Mini helps drive more subs; it seems the vast majority of Mini sales will simply reduce the number of Premieres.
     
  4. Mar 3, 2013 #1444 of 1620
    herbman

    herbman Member

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    Here is my problem. I have a 2 tuner premiere. I'm about to setup a second TV in my kitchen. I'd like to put a Mini on it, however I think at this point in early 2013, buying a new s4/premiere-level device, lifetime or monthly, seems like a bad idea. I think the lack of 2-tuner support is incredibly short sighted, as it is explicitly causing a loss of sale in my case. I've even thought about just getting another 2-tuner premiere for this TV, but I don't want to have another cablecard and tuning adapter to deal with on twc.

    Somewhat annoyed. I'll probably jump on the first series 5/mini deal that comes out.
     
  5. Mar 3, 2013 #1445 of 1620
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Details here -> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-02/tivo-sets-the-stage-for-next-gen-digital-dvr/

     
  6. Mar 3, 2013 #1446 of 1620
    jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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  7. Mar 3, 2013 #1447 of 1620
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    TiVo doesn't publish metrics on multi-box households but based on cost factors and the lack of a whole home solution I expect that the majority of TiVo households have one TiVo box. I know a number of people that have one TiVo box with their other TVs being lit-up by cable operator provided set tops. I believe the Mini will drive newer subs to a 4-tuner or future 6-tuner DVR model which has higher margins for TiVo. The Mini is probably not subsidized at $99 so it will have a very good ROI as well. I expect TiVo will offer bundles that incentivize new customers to buy a Premiere 4 + TiVo Stream + 1 or 2 Mini's. Every customer that buys into the full bundle (Premiere-4/XL4 + 2 Minis) will add 3 subscribers to the TiVo-Owned count. I do expect that we will see churn fluctuate a little higher than the current 1.5% (Q4) but it will stay well under 2%.
     
  8. Mar 3, 2013 #1448 of 1620
    jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Unless someone is new to TiVo, I wouldn't suggest buying any Premiere or Premiere 4 now, when most signs point to a platform refresh or a "Series 5" later this year.

    However, I suspect a Mini will eventually allow the use of an original Premiere as host, as well as any potential host released in the future.

    For me, I'd love a 6 tuner host where I could use at least 2 tuners for OTA and two or three Minis. I'd keep one of my Elites and sell the other one and the two Elites.
     
  9. Mar 3, 2013 #1449 of 1620
    JohnnyO

    JohnnyO Crimper

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    This is an interesting data point. I must be an outlier in that I want a common user interface on all my DVRs. [Of course, maybe you are saying that the non-TiVo devices are "just" cable boxes and not DVRs - I'm drunk too much TiVo DVR KoolAid to even think about owning a TV without a DVR...] I've standardized on the Harmony One remote for the same reason.
     
  10. Mar 3, 2013 #1450 of 1620
    lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    That is correct about Amazon

    Estimated delivery: Mar. 20, 2013 - Mar. 27, 2013

    TiVo TCD750500 Premiere 4 Digital Video Recorder (Black)
    TiVo TCD750500 Premiere 4 Digital Video Recorder (Black)

    $221.99

    Quantity: 1 Change

    Usually ships within 1 to 3 weeks.

    Sold by: Amazon.com LLC
     
  11. Mar 3, 2013 #1451 of 1620
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    I believe TiVoDesign replied to someone that an Android update would be out in a few weeks to address an issue with Jelly Bean. I don't know if it will bring Stream support or not though. I would guess no, but it sounds like from that they might be firing up the Android development.
     
  12. Mar 4, 2013 #1452 of 1620
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    That's not true. Even the iPad 4 can not decode 1080 MPEG-2 in software and it has one of the fastest ARM processors in existence. You're right that MPEG-4 is more complicated then MPEG-2, but they are completely different standard and are not backwards compatible. These devices have a special chip designed specifically to decode MPEG-4 video. They do not have chips for decoding MPG-2, nor the CPU power to do it in software. The only way a Roku could ever act like a Mini is if you also had a Stream to transcode to H.264 on the fly. If it were just a licensing thing then they would enable it because the MPEG-LA license for MPEG-2 decoding is less then a $1 per seat.
     
  13. Mar 4, 2013 #1453 of 1620
    lgerbarg

    lgerbarg New Member

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    The iPad 4 absolutely has enough horse power to decode MPEG2 at 1080P in software, it just would suck for battery consumption. Also, strictly speaking it probably does have hardware for MPEG2 decoding since they use an Imgtec VXD decoder block on the SoC, and removing the MPEG2 hardware from that is more effort than it is worth... Generally it is simply not exposed up through the kernel or the firmware for the VXD's core processor is omitted since they didn't pay the patent license fees for MPEG2. Something like a Roku does not have the power restrictions so software decoding would be viable, and almost any SoC video decoder block that can do MPEG4 can do MPEG2 as well.
     
  14. Mar 4, 2013 #1454 of 1620
    crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    Entirely plausible (since the modern ARM's are so much faster than even a few years ago), but not sure I believe it (1080P in software with no hardware decoding), though. Even my 3.6Ghz AMD struggles with 1080P without assistance. It is true that some deblocking routines are generic enough to work on either H264 or MPEG2, but it would be only a few parts of many.
     
  15. Mar 4, 2013 #1455 of 1620
    Mike-Wolf

    Mike-Wolf New Member

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    I'm pretty sure the OTA feature is dead and TiVo has no plans on revisiting it since it hasn't been seen in the newer models probably due to the lack of internal space in favor of the added tuners. I've been concerned about TiVo abandoning the TiVo 4 users in favor of the TiVo 5 in not rolling out software updates anymore but was told by several executives that this wouldn't be the case, for whatever that's worth. I know that at least with Cisco they have two types of CableCARDs out, one that is more common supporting 6 programs at once and the newer one supporting 8 streams. The problem is not with how many tuners TiVo puts in their equipment but the service providers having the equipment, hardware, and knowledge to support it. I just hope that if the TiVo 5 does come out it's backwards compatible with streaming and transferring between TiVo's like the TiVo 4 does currently.
     
  16. Mar 4, 2013 #1456 of 1620
    jamesjones_det

    jamesjones_det New Member

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    So you are telling me that an Apple TV and a Roku can decode Cable signals? That's news to me, last I checked I couldn't watch cable on my Apple TV.

    A mini is not a direct competitor to an Apple TV or Roku. They have similarities but that's as far as it goes.
     
  17. Mar 4, 2013 #1457 of 1620
    DaveDFW

    DaveDFW Member

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    If you frame your requirements so rigidly that you specifically exclude those other devices, then, yes, a Mini is your only solution. But that's what I meant when I wrote that objections to the other devices seem to be that those devices don't provide a peanut remote.

    I'm being somewhat facetious with that argument--I don't really believe that the peanut remote is driving consumer's buying decisions, I'm saying that these consumers are unnecessarily limiting their options by only taking a narrow view of their available entertainment options.

    No, those other devices won't interface with cable broadcasts or communicate with your existing investment in Tivo infrastructure because they're not intended to do those functions.

    If a consumer is only interested in viewing commercial video programming, those other devices are capable of receiving and displaying that programming, albeit using different methods. And those devices are significantly cheaper than the Mini.
     
  18. Mar 4, 2013 #1458 of 1620
    socrplyr

    socrplyr Active Member

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    OTA is most likely not dead. Check Tivo's latest filings. They are requesting exemptions from Analog tuners for OTA. That suggests to me that they are probably staying in that game. At some point Tivo will stop updating the S4 platform. That is a given. It will most likely be when the S5 comes out or shortly thereafter.
     
  19. Mar 4, 2013 #1459 of 1620
    jamesjones_det

    jamesjones_det New Member

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    I don't disagree with any of that. TBH if it wasn't for live TV support and the ability to watch recoded shows I wouldn't touch a mini, but as it stands it's the only option if you want to roll your own hardware these days.

    I'm honestly not a huge fan of TiVo in general, but when service providers are trying to charge $40 a month for hardware i'm willing to live with a few quarks here and there.
     
  20. Mar 4, 2013 #1460 of 1620
    P42

    P42 Active Member

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    The Roku 2, ie the current hardware, uses the BCM*2835 running at 600 MHz which includes the Broadcom's VideoCore® IV. Finally: "Although MPEG2 is not aimed at the mobile market, it runs efficiently on the VideoCore platform.
    This is the same SoC as in the Raspberry Pi, for which an MPEG-2 license can be purchased for $3.61.

    In short the hardware can do it, based on the above specs, it just doesn't make sense or cents for it to do it for what the product is targeted at.
     

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