The Sopranos - "The Second Coming" OAD: 5-20-2007 *spoilers*

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by terpfan1980, May 20, 2007.

  1. May 21, 2007 #61 of 123

    unixadm Super Moderator Staff Member

    Jan 1, 2001
    Wichita, KS


    Although you make some good points about his life crumbling down around him, I just don't see Tony doing this. The only time he might have comptemplated it was when he was on peyote or some other drug or if he goes on a drinking binge. His life is crumbling down, but I think he would go into action to deal with it.....just go on a killing spree of Phil and his cronies. Maybe even include Paulie on that list. The only way that he would go through with suicide is if he killed Carmella in a fit of rage....then he would realize that he would have no choice but take his life.
  2. May 21, 2007 #62 of 123

    Cainebj Well-Known Member

    Nov 10, 2006
    New York
    whoever in this thread said this series is really about the family is right on the money (and i don't mean the mob family).

    i suspect we're going to have a no ending finale with a shot of something mundane with Tony Carm AJ and Meadow.
  3. May 21, 2007 #63 of 123

    Marco Loyal Little

    Sep 19, 2000
    Capital of...
    Tony *says* he's depressed. Tony loves Tony too much to kill himself. Remember also, how many false story leads have we been fed already, this season alone?

    IMO all these ends for Tony are more likely than suicide:
    Tony killed by nuclear family member
    Tony killed by own Mafia Family member
    Tony killed by Phil's crew
    Tony dies in prison, of old age or otherwise
    Tony enters Witness Protection and dies in his bed 30 years from now
  4. May 21, 2007 #64 of 123
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    Oct 17, 2000
    Tony killed by fundamentalist Islamic terrorist
  5. May 21, 2007 #65 of 123

    Idearat Active Member

    Nov 26, 2000


    Not being an expert on suicide, I thought it look fairly efficient. Only due to AJ's being bad at geometry had him making the rope too long. The bag, pool and weight all seemed intended to keep him from panicking and changing his mind mid-way through. The bag was over his head and he was already behind the oxygen/CO2 curve when he entered the water. If/When he pulled the bag off he'd be underwater so his first desperate gulp would be water, not air. The weight should have kept him from swimming to the surface.

    The long rope could have been his "out" at least subconsciously. Then it's no longer drowning yourself but a treading water exercise. Barring panic he could easily have moved the cinderblock to the shallow end a little at a time and even exited the pool.
  6. May 21, 2007 #66 of 123

    porges Member

    Feb 28, 2001
    See, by me, you bolded the wrong part. There are two expressions that are starting to get blended together in general usage:

    -- the "800-pound gorilla" can do whatever he wants ("Q: Where does an 800-pound gorilla sleep? A: Anywhere he wants")

    -- the "elephant in the room" is the thing that everybody knows about but nobody is willing to admit. I think its original context was the family of an alcoholic talking about all the other family problems resulting from that, but not about the actual drinking.

    So I'd say the elephant is right, but the mention of the weight is both unnecessary and, for an elephant...insufficient.
  7. May 21, 2007 #67 of 123

    Bananfish Preowned Member

    May 16, 2002
    Belmont, CA

    I don't really think the following is a spoiler, but out of an abundance of caution:

    I can't see that happening. David Chase has said that he has known for years what the ending of the show would be. I suspect Chase has had some ending for Tony that he believes is artistically appropriate, and getting offed by a random terrorist just doesn't seem consistent with that to me.
  8. May 21, 2007 #68 of 123

    Rob64 Member

    Aug 27, 2005
    Does any one know which son of Patsy Meadow is dating....Patsy refered to two sons. Is it the one who AJ hangs out with who is a thug or the other son? Just curious if Meadow is with a guy who is heading into the Mafia life or if he is Patsy's other son. When she was at the table in the resturant he didn't look like the one AJ hangs with.
  9. May 21, 2007 #69 of 123

    pmyers Well-Known Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Gilbert, AZ
    He also didn't look like he knew what was going on or who her dad was....
  10. May 21, 2007 #70 of 123

    Bananfish Preowned Member

    May 16, 2002
    Belmont, CA

    A few things:

    (1) This episode went out of its way to establish a foundation for the idea that depression/suicide run in Tony's family. It's not really necessary to AJ's suicide story to underscore that depression is a family trait. A perfectly logical reason to include it is to provide some credibility to Tony killing himself - i.e., to justify it despite the things you mention.

    (2) This episode also went out of its way to establish that Tony himself is, and has been for a long time, depressed, and potentially suicidal. When he tells Melfi after AJ's attempt that suicide is the coward's way out, Melfi tells him: "I think whoever said that didn't understand depression ... but you do, don't you?" And when he tells Carm that he is depressed, instead of being understanding she blows him off and blames him for AJ's suicide. He sits there unbelieving that Carm doesn't recognize or appreciate his depression.

    (3) Third episode from the end of the series and an entire episode deals with a busted suicide attempt by AJ? What could be the possible purpose of that? It certainly has nothing to do with any NY turf wars or Tony possibly being caught by the feds or Tony going into a witness protection program. Chase is no idiot - he can't possibly believe viewers want to spend an entire episode with AJ three episodes from the end - there has to be a purpose related to wrapping up the show/Tony. I can think of no better reason than a Tony Soprano suicide as the show's (and Tony's) coup de grace.

    (4) I haven't seen any evidence of Tony "going into action" to deal with his real issues. For instance, rather than planning anything against Phil, he simply went "hat in hand, on his knees" to Phil. And when Phil rebuffed him, he didn't yell back, didn't storm in demanding to be heard ... he just walked meekly away. (Yes, I realize he curbed the NY guy - but that wasn't dealing with any real issue in his life.)

    (5) It just seems to me that we've been witnessing one "depressing" aspect of Tony's life after another, featuring one by one all the people in Tony's life in more or less the reverse order of their importance to Tony.

    First, Bobby Bacala punches him. Then the Paulie loudmouth trip. Then Hesch is a pain because Tony owes him money from gambling debts. Then his selected "family" heir, Chris, goes back on drugs, and Tony snuffs him. Then his real family heir, AJ tries to commit suicide. Don't be surprised if the next characters to add to Tony's angst are Silvio (perhaps over the Phil thing) and Meadow (probably over Patsy Parisi), followed in the last episode by Carm. (And that scenario you came up with of a rage killing of Carm followed by Tony turning the gun on himself doesn't seem at all farfetched to me.)
  11. May 21, 2007 #71 of 123

    Test Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2004
    That scene was my second thought...

    This was my first, News Blooper
  12. May 21, 2007 #72 of 123

    SoupMan Well-Known Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Stop it, Bananfish! You're convincing me and I don't want to see it end that way. :D
  13. May 21, 2007 #73 of 123

    5thcrewman Active Member

    Sep 22, 2003
    (6) Tony dies of Mesothelioma
  14. May 21, 2007 #74 of 123

    marksman ID-10-T

    Mar 4, 2002
    Yeah I commented to the people I was watching the show with, that must have been before the show started. He has always been miserable.
  15. May 21, 2007 #75 of 123

    gossamer88 UHDTV Snob

    Jul 26, 2005
    Da Bronx
    OMG...Howard Stern has played that clip hundreds of times, and everytime it makes me laugh...this is the first time I've seen it on video...thanks!!
  16. May 21, 2007 #76 of 123

    marksman ID-10-T

    Mar 4, 2002
    Yeah it is amazing how some people miss the point of the show. The show has ben what it is from the beginning, yet people claiming it is boring or too focused on the family just make me wonder what show they have been watching.
  17. May 21, 2007 #77 of 123

    ROB-USA Member

    Feb 1, 2005
    That kid could f**k-up a fart in a wind storm! :eek:
  18. May 21, 2007 #78 of 123

    ThreeSoFar FourNow...WaitFive

    May 24, 2002
    "What, no ****in ziti now?"
    --AJ: Whiny selfish bastard

    "...just a ****in idiot?"
    --Tony: right as rain

    This is getting good. I am still cracking up here.

    How to clean practically anything.....classic!

    I like the Oz/Phil analogy---good one.
  19. May 21, 2007 #79 of 123

    ThreeSoFar FourNow...WaitFive

    May 24, 2002
    I was 85% expecting Tony to use the phrase "shorter rope" at some point in this episode. Maybe the next one.
  20. May 21, 2007 #80 of 123

    zalusky Well-Known Member TCF Club

    Apr 5, 2002
    Cupertino, CA
    How many people were hoping Tony would whack AJ just like he did Christofuh for the greater sake of the family. :):):)

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