The Orville - Deflectors - S02 E07 - 02/14/2019

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Donbadabon, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. Feb 19, 2019 #61 of 103
    rdrrepair

    rdrrepair Bill Knapp

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    Ugh. All this underlying "race" issues related to a sci-fi series.

    Remember the kiss between Uhura and Kirk? The fallout from that was tremendous back then. A blip now, but a defining moment in tv history.

    It's not unusual to see parallels to current societal issues based on how you already feel. Looking deeper into one's self, taking stock, agreeing or disagreeing with a premise. If it gets you to think, it's done what the writers intended.

    If it comes off as sanctimonious it'll push people away. I don't think it's there yet but am still interested in the dynamics of it. Hopefully it won't go there...
     
  2. Feb 19, 2019 #62 of 103
    rharmelink

    rharmelink Active Member

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    But he said admitting it would bring shame and ruin to his family. Asylum doesn't remove those consequences.
     
  3. Feb 19, 2019 #63 of 103
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    It never even occurred to me.
     
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  4. Feb 19, 2019 #64 of 103
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    If?!? It's been sanctimonious since the third episode of the series when they did the after-school special on transgender issues.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
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  5. Feb 19, 2019 #65 of 103
    Barnstormer

    Barnstormer Member

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    Put me down with the the 'to much Moclan' crowd. Enough!


    Look at the photos of the actors who play the two Moclans on the Oroville. And look at Locar.

    The Entertainment industry is famous for stereotyping groups of any type - race, nationality, religious beliefs, political beliefs, geographic differences, etc. IMHO, They seem to be a very prejudiced group overall, and have little understanding of what a diverse society is truly like.
     
  6. Feb 19, 2019 #66 of 103
    eddyj

    eddyj SeƱor Member TCF Club

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    And being publicly tried and executed would not bring shame to his family?

    Even if so, trying to blame and lay a guilt trip on the person helping you, because she will not betray her oaths for you, is a bit of a dick move.
     
  7. Feb 19, 2019 #67 of 103
    allan

    allan Just someone TCF Club

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    I know Worf was black. Can't think of any others off the top of my head.
     
  8. Feb 19, 2019 #68 of 103
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to get my mind around this. And so the idea is, the actors who have portrayed Moclan are black, and the Moclan are a less-than-exemplary species, and this shows a negative stereotyping and prejudice? If I'm correct, the actors portraying Dr. Finn (Penny Johnson Jerald) and Lt. Cmdr. John LaMarr (J. Lee) also seem to have black heritage, and at least the former has had some major, positive story lines.

    Were the Klingons also black? Just by way of comparison, the perhaps best Klingon character of all time (on TNG) was played by Suzie Plakson, who seems to be a white woman. (Demonstrating her acting chops, she also portrayed a Vulcan (TNG), a Q (Voyager), and an Andorian (Enterprise).)

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Feb 19, 2019 #69 of 103
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Just following up on the above, the Krill seem to be the grand arch-enemy on "The Orville." They seem to have light make-up and prosthetics--I don't know if they are being portrayed by white/light-skinned actors. If so, is that problematic?
     
  10. Feb 19, 2019 #70 of 103
    stile99

    stile99 Well-Known Member

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    Some Klingons were portrayed by black actors (Locar's actor, Wren T Brown, being one of them). Some were portrayed by white actors.

    Just like the Moclans. Not counting Topa we've seen what, 6 with speaking roles? One played by a non-black actor?
     
  11. Feb 19, 2019 #71 of 103
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Oops--can't forget John Schuck.
     
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  12. Feb 19, 2019 #72 of 103
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    Then you're not very observant.
    This has nothing to do with black actors in general. I think it's great that Dr. Finn and LaMarr are being played by black actors and are generally positive characters.

    My point was that the Moclan species is being portrayed as backwards and intolerant and they are the subject of all the series' allegories for intolerant, ignorant human problems. This doesn't look very good when you realize all the Moclans are portrayed by black actors. Was that by design or simply an unfortunate coincidence?
    Again, totally missing the point. This isn't about enemies or makeup. This is about designing a species to be played exclusively by black males, and then writing that species as being the stand-in for all the problems humans experience with intolerance, hatred, bigotry, closed-mindedness, and inability to accept change.
     
  13. Feb 19, 2019 #73 of 103
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your observation. I guess I was overlooking what you seem to find obvious, or don't see it as an obvious or foregone conclusion.
    And I understand your point. But then when you ignore the positive characters--Dr. Finn and LaMarr, both seemingly being played by actors with a black heritage--it seems to me that you can be seen as cherry-picking, in one quarter. But also, not to negate a possible issue and interesting hypothesis.
    And you've missed my point in raising the Krill--it seems to me that what you've said about the Moclan likewise could be said as to the Krill, tailoring the negatives and the skin color to them.
     
  14. Feb 19, 2019 #74 of 103
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    Now you're just being obtuse. I didn't say or imply that the show was mistreating black actors. I'm simply talking about the design of the Moclan species. They made deliberate choices to have the Moclans be (a) used as the example of intolerance and bigotry in their episodes where they tackle these very human issues, and (b) played exclusively by black males.

    Bringing the Krill into this discussion is pointless. It has nothing to do with the points I have made. In general, sci fi enemies are cartoonish in nature and they're not designed to represent any human trait other than pure evil. In contrast, the Moclans are portrayed as allies, yet intolerant, which frames the issue very differently than making them cartoon bad guys.
     
  15. Feb 19, 2019 #75 of 103
    Flop

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    The race and ethnicity of actors in relation to their characters never even occurs to me. Especially so in a sci-fi show with imaginary species.
     
  16. Feb 19, 2019 #76 of 103
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    And it likely would not have occurred to me if not for the fact that the Moclans are consistently used as the example of the species that's most in need of enlightenment. If the show had spread some of those issues around to other species, then I likely never would have noticed.
     
  17. Feb 19, 2019 #77 of 103
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but you're just having a hard time listening to another angle, and are mischaracterizing (the conclusory name-calling doesn't help--please stop).

    I never said that you are implying that the show "was mistreating black actors." ? And I do understand your hypothesis, which I find interesting--and which, again, is countered, to a degree, by the "positive" black actors in the show, which you once again have cherry-picked away.

    Trying to write-off the Krill in this discussion seems to me as trying to force a point without considering the other facts. If the Krill are all played by white actors, and if the Krill are the embodiment of evil, I have a hard time not seeing your Moclan hypothesis as applicable to the Krill and whites as well. Putting it another way, if the Moclan were being portrayed by white actors and the Krill were black, mightn't some make the same point as to the black Krill? Albeit, we know so much less about the Krill, as you note.
     
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  18. Feb 19, 2019 #78 of 103
    laria

    laria Librocubicularist

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    Same. I was obviously aware that the Moclans have been portrayed by mostly black men, but made no connections to that with their storylines. They're just aliens with darker skin to me.
     
  19. Feb 19, 2019 #79 of 103
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    As it just did, in the constellation episode with the white male leader (were other characters in that alien species non-white? I don't recall).
     
  20. Feb 19, 2019 #80 of 103
    allan

    allan Just someone TCF Club

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    The only ones that pop into my head were white, including the people of the "bad" zodiac sign in the prison.
     

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