The Free Space Indicator Thread

Discussion in 'TiVo Suggestion Avenue' started by Samsara, Jan 12, 2002.

How Important is This to You?

  1. It's so important that I'd pay extra for it.

    158 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. It's important but I wouldn't pay extra for it.

    1,307 vote(s)
    75.5%
  3. Not important, but I'd probably use it if it was free.

    219 vote(s)
    12.7%
  4. I'd probably never use it one way or the other.

    46 vote(s)
    2.7%
  1. Jan 5, 2003 #121 of 297
    vegaspl

    vegaspl Tivo'er since '99

    169
    0
    Feb 20, 2001
    West Hills,...

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    I think you may have misunderstood me. Or.... I wasn't clear enough.

    It is "suggestions" that would almost always completely take up all available space over time. That's why that figure would be kinda useless.

    What I mean't by "Commited" was the total of all the upcoming scheduled programs (TDL) for all or a portion of the TDL to a projected date.

    IOW..... When I plan to travel, I determine when I will be back. Does what is in the NP together with whats in my TDL (to the return date) exceed my total space capability?

    Example:

    Todays date is Jan 1

    I plan to return on January 8

    My Capacity in total is 100 hrs

    My NP at 1/1 is 60 hrs

    My TDL is committed to:

    8 hrs on 1/2

    10 hrs on 1/3

    2 hrs on 1/4

    10 hrs on 1/5

    3 hrs on 1/6

    2 hrs on 1/7

    1 hr on 1/8

    4 hrs on 1/9

    The above indicates that since I will not be watching and deleting anything while I am away, I had better start watching when I get back or some NP programs will start deleting to make room for the TDL of 1/10 and/or some of the TDL programs schedule for 1/10 will not record.

    Note: For S/A' Unless all recordings are at one recording quality The hours indicated in the above are the calculated equivalents.

    When anticipating Travel, I have been doing the above calculations manually for quite some time. It's frustrating...as TiVo could so easily do it for me.
     
  2. Jan 5, 2003 #122 of 297
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member

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    San Antonio
    Oh, gotcha... you're suggesting that they show the number of net hours scheduled to be recorded each day, whereas I suggested they just tell me when it'll fill up. I can see why knowing how much per day would be handy though.
     
  3. Jan 5, 2003 #123 of 297
    vegaspl

    vegaspl Tivo'er since '99

    169
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    Feb 20, 2001
    West Hills,...
    Not necessarily "Show" the net hours each day. Just the "TOTAL" hours (or %) that will be used at each upcoming day.

    The example I had given was just for clarification of how the desired result to be shown will be arrived at.

    However, this would be more of what I suspect would be shown:

    Date Hrs/% Used Hrs/% Remaining

    Currently: 1/1 60 hrs / 60 % 40 hrs / 40 %

    8 hrs on 1/2 68hrs / 68 % 32 hrs / 32 %


    10 hrs on 1/3 78 hrs / 78 % 40 hrs / 40 %


    2 hrs on 1/4 80 hrs / 80 % 20 hrs / 20 %


    10 hrs on 1/5 90 hrs / 90 % 10 hrs / 10%


    3 hrs on 1/6 93 hrs / 93 % 7 hrs / 7%

    2 hrs on 1/7 95 hrs / 95 % 5 hrs / 5%

    1 hr on 1/8 96 hrs / 96 % 4 hrs / 4%

    4 hrs on 1/9 100 hrs / 100 % 0 hrs / 0%
     
  4. Jan 6, 2003 #124 of 297
    Deven

    Deven New Member

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    Feb 6, 2001
    Greenhills,...
    What's wrong with the "7-day forecast" idea? A series of vertical bar graphs arrayed horizontally across the screen should convey all the key information quickly, and solve the problem of upcoming recordings.

    Heck, if nothing else, we should at LEAST be able to get a one-line summary in the System Information screen that says the number of hours/minutes are actually USED in Now Playing at the moment. That would save people from adding up the times manually.
     
  5. Jan 6, 2003 #125 of 297
    rbird

    rbird uses tivo "wrong"

    126
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    Sep 20, 2000
    Centerville, GA

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    YES! This is what I had envisioned when I created my pie chart mockup screen well over a year ago.

    Bob
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Jan 6, 2003 #126 of 297
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member

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    San Antonio
    My only nitpick with both of your ideas (Deven and rbird) is the arbitrariness of a 7 day or 3 day window. What about 2 days, or 5 days?

    Otherwise, I'm fine with the idea, as long as it's easy to grasp at a glance what's happening, and most importantly when I'll run out of space. I envision something like the following graph being something that would be extremely helpful:
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Jan 6, 2003 #127 of 297
    vegaspl

    vegaspl Tivo'er since '99

    169
    0
    Feb 20, 2001
    West Hills,...

    Brett:

    I Love it:up:

    The graph you linked to is absolutely all I would need:cool:

    Now if we could just get TiVo it do it:confused:
     
  8. Jan 6, 2003 #128 of 297
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member

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    San Antonio
    Well, I know it's sort of a small thing to hang on to, but not long before RB left TiVo he did say, in so many words, that our discussion/debate on this issue was now moot. Based on that, and the fact that they obviously decided since the beginning not to add a simple current free space indicator, leads me to believe that we'll get something closer to what we're pushing for...
     
  9. Jan 6, 2003 #129 of 297
    martinp13

    martinp13 Roller coaster addict :)

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    Mar 19, 2001
    Fort Worth, TX
    Hmmm... I always took RB's comment to mean that they would never add a free-space indicator. Since we as a group can never agree on any aspects of an FSI, it's just too hard to figure out what is "correct". As I've said before on this issue, I hope I'm wrong about never getting an FSI of SOME sort, but I think I'm right. :(
     
  10. Jan 6, 2003 #130 of 297
    rbird

    rbird uses tivo "wrong"

    126
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    Sep 20, 2000
    Centerville, GA
    If you'll check my mock FSI screen again, I believe you'll find a blue wiener just waiting for your input. ;)

    Bob
     
  11. Jan 9, 2003 #131 of 297
    Deven

    Deven New Member

    82
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    Feb 6, 2001
    Greenhills,...
    Brett,

    Your mockup is similar to the "forecast" I was just talking about, in that it's a series of bar graphs, one per day. Of course, you have to pick a point in time to represent for the day; midnight would be an obvious choice, although 6 AM the next morning might be better. I guess I'd also add a "current" graph for right now, then continue with today's date (prediction for the end of the day), and as many days forward as makes sense. Yes, 7 days was arbitrary, but I meant showing EACH of those 7 days, not just 7 days out. You could go as far as the data allows (12-14 days) or limit it to 7 for consistency...

    As for the look of each bar, I wouldn't do it quite the same way -- I'd have them vertical still, but each bar would be the same height (representing 100%), with several dividing lines and different colors for the breakdown -- sort of like a pie chart, but in a vertical bar form instead. It's hard to say exactly which categories should be shown, but I'd say definitely start with green at the bottom representing SUID programs, then maybe blue (or some other neutral color) for unexpired programs, then yellow for expired (but not deleted) programs, then another color (black? brown? striped?) for Suggestions, finally a last color for truly free space that's not allocated at all. (I suppose you could just end the graph without filling in that top segment, alternatively.)

    I would be inclined to put diagonal stripes across the free space and Suggestions segments, since those are available for new recordings. Actually, come to think of it, it might look prettier (and less confusing) to use fewer colors. Suppose you keep solid green for SUID programs, and use solid yellow for requested programs that aren't SUID, then striped yellow for the expired programs, and striped black/brown/blue for the Suggestions? The stripes would basically identify what's available for recording, while keeping the graph pretty simple...

    How does that sound?
     
  12. Jan 9, 2003 #132 of 297
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member

    33,693
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    Nov 12, 2000
    San Antonio
    That'd work for me!

    The main things I'd prefer would be:

    1) It's easy, at a glance, for my parents to understand what it means. So complex charts would be out. (Your chart doesn't sound complex to me).

    2) It is always accurate based on the current data available, even if it means a dreaded "Please Wait..." message.

    3) It shows me, at a glance, when I'm going to start losing something. At least the day and time.
     
  13. Jan 9, 2003 #133 of 297
    Deven

    Deven New Member

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    Feb 6, 2001
    Greenhills,...
    (1) I hope such a graph would be easy enough for just about anyone to understand -- the amount of space "really" used is the solid part, the striped part is used but available to record over, and the extra bit above the striped part is not used at all. You could inverse the meaning of the stripes and have the stuff that ISN'T reclaimable be striped instead, but I think that would be uglier.

    (2) I wouldn't want to see a "Please Wait..." message, but I wouldn't mind if each bar appeared individually, and it took a few seconds for each to pop up. (The "current" bar should pop up almost instantly, since it only needs to scan Now Playing.) Until all the bars are displayed, you'd want a message at the bottom of the screen to indicate that it's not done displaying. You should still be able to leave the screen without waiting for the entire thing to be drawn -- if you don't need the forecast for 7 days from now, why should you have to wait while it's being calculated? (Anyway, it's probably the same work it has to do when checking for low disk space when scheduling a recording, and that only takes a few seconds normally...)

    (3) I have no problem with the message at the bottom of the screen indicating the time/date when it's expected to run out. That's useful additional information.

    (4) I would NOT represent the graph in hours. With VBR, that's uncertain anyhow. I'd make it a simple 0-100% scale -- the user can always estimate from the percentage the approximate number of hours it represents. I don't know if it would be good or bad to label the numeric percentage of each segment in the graph -- apart from additional clutter, it might be better to make the user estimate visually to force a little error into the process so the user doesn't expect perfect precision in predicting the number of hours...

    (5) On the other hand, I would like to be able to see exactly how many hours and minutes are actually in use -- I'm not sure how to reconcile this. Maybe just show HH:MM under each graph for the total of the unstriped area, that would probably be good enough...

    Of course, even if we can finally come to a consensus after all this time, could we convince TiVo to implement it?
     
  14. Jan 9, 2003 #134 of 297
    TreborPugly

    TreborPugly Unreal!

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    Heh. Consensus? Among whom? The 5 people who still think this is an active topic? :rolleyes: :D

    If Tivo does eventually move FSI up high enough on the list to get implemented. They might look back at this discussion for some ideas, but in the end, they'll sit down and decide amongst themselves what is useful, usable, and implementable. Then they'll give it some silly name like iSpace or iIndicator... :D :D

    Treb.
     
  15. Lightn

    Lightn New Member

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    Jun 3, 2000
    Has anyone every seen the space usage graph on the tivoweb page? In the Original Branch section, there is an example space usage graph, which was generated from my actual tivo data about 2 years ago on version 1.3 software.

    Unfortunately with VBR and some changes in tivo's scheduling algorithm, it wouldn't be as easy to do any more. But in the new tivoweb there is some pretty good information about space used in the info module.
     
  16. chq

    chq New Member

    2
    0
    Feb 27, 2003
    sleepy...
    I once owned a 1972 chevy Nova, nothing special, but it had a little thing that told me how much gas I had. Why can't this little linux box tell me how much free space (gas) I have left?

    "Come on guys, it's all ball bearings"
    -chevy chase as Fletch:)
     
  17. HTH

    HTH No Avatar Selected

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    Yeah, I've been meaning to sit down and re-massage that graph into how I envisioned my "clogged pipe" model. Any chance you still have the raw data?
     
  18. Mar 3, 2003 #138 of 297
    rbird

    rbird uses tivo "wrong"

    126
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    Sep 20, 2000
    Centerville, GA
    Since the thread has been bumped....YES, I love this feature. Between the Info page and the "Deleted Items" page under User Interface, I can get a good bit of the information I'm looking for.

    For those who don't use TivoWeb, the Deleted Items page shows programs which have been deleted but not yet overwritten (and therefore may be "undeleted"). It's like using the suggestions to gauge free space, except much more accurate!

    Bob
     
  19. rogerb

    rogerb New Member

    5
    0
    Apr 16, 2003
    massachusetts
    May have already been said...

    Not just a single free space indicator please.

    Also each entry in the list of recorded shows should indicate how big it is
    (much like a computer directory would), so you know what the best
    candidates for deletion (or archiving) are.

    ... Roger
     
  20. hub

    hub New Member

    4
    0
    May 28, 2003
    Judging from the number of posts on this thread and the passion involved, a perfect FSI could take man-years to develop, which might be why we haven’t seen it.

    How about just a simple “df –a” output hidden as an Easter Egg feature, anywhere a developer kind enough to satisfy the nerds among us see fit to put in, say “system info”, three thumbs down, followed by five thumbs up...? I don’t need no translation to hours or 5-day forecast.

    There have been times that I resisted the urge to open the box, take out the disk, put it into a PC, boot into Linux to get the results.
    :) But then again, I'd probably just put another 120MB disk in there.
     

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