The Biggest Fail of all Time TiVo+

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by JACKASTOR, Nov 26, 2019.

Dump it or keep it?

  1. Dump it, it’s really crap!

  2. Keep it it’s the best!

  3. Neutral

  4. It makes me want to roll over and die!

  5. It makes me feel all warm and good inside when I watch it.

    0 vote(s)
  6. Currently I do not have to suffer TiVo+

  1. Jan 1, 2020 #121 of 150

    tommiet Active Member

    Oct 28, 2005
    You better change your address and hide... the TE3 Gestapo is coming for you......
    edwinyuen and Fofer like this.
  2. Jan 1, 2020 #122 of 150

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    ...slow on Roamios and older Minis, infested with ads now, can do auto-skip on TE3 so no real need to upgrade blah blah blah.

    WAY too many tradeoffs especially on older boxes, addition of ad crap just makes it a complete non-starter. Everyone should downgrade and send Tivo a message.
    shwru980r likes this.
  3. Jan 1, 2020 #123 of 150

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    No, the Tivo ad police is coming to force more of them on TE4.
  4. Jan 1, 2020 #124 of 150

    saeba Active Member

    Oct 12, 2004
    To be fair to TiVo+.... it is possible that this TiVo+ release is just the first part of a larger (and better) solution. TiVo does have a history of that ..... HD Menus arrived across multiple releases.... Automatic ad skip, etc. I did try to discuss the future plans for TiVo+ with one of their product managers explaining that I was concerned about what recent functionality additions (pre-roll and Grid ads, TiVo+) said about the overall direction of TiVo. He wouldn't provide any info even after I stated that this concern, plus the premium I paid for the TiVo/Comcast solution, was leading me to drop both. If there is a larger plan, TiVo is refusing to discuss it with their customers....even as customers drop away. I think some transparency on TiVo's part would help.
  5. Jan 1, 2020 #125 of 150

    Lurker1 Well-Known Member

    Jun 4, 2004
    Maybe squeezing customers until they drop away IS the plan? It has been cable's plan for many years.
  6. Jan 1, 2020 #126 of 150

    Fofer Bo55man69

    Oct 29, 2000
    Huh? Maybe on a regular Roamio. Certainly not a Roamio Plus/Pro. TE4 feels just as snappy, if not snappier than TE3 ever did. And it’s fine on my two older Minis too.

    And *native* auto comskip is better than auto comskip which requires a separate computer running kmttg.

    I still have yet to see a pre-roll ad. And I’d hardly call the TiVo+ entry in the guide evidence that TE4 is “infested with ads.”

    (Also, TE3’s UI looks positively antiquated on a big screen 4KTV. So there’s that...)

    "Blah blah blah," indeed.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    edwinyuen likes this.
  7. Jan 1, 2020 #127 of 150

    lucidrenegade Member

    Aug 20, 2013
    I was LMAO when I heard that Tivo's arch-nemesis, Comcast, is in talks to purchase Xumo. Xumo is the service Tivo re-brands for Tivo+.
  8. Jan 7, 2020 #128 of 150

    Fofer Bo55man69

    Oct 29, 2000
    foghorn2 likes this.
  9. Jan 7, 2020 #129 of 150

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2005
    And so, and without meaning to be derogatory, it's just throwing more mud at the wall and hoping that things stick?

    I'm a lowly TE3 consumer (albeit, on multiple TiVo boxes), but I still don't understand TiVo+. The idea is, I have nothing to do with my time and so go to TiVo+ and cruise around--there not being any TiVo Guide info.--until I find something that's on to kill my time with? Or is there something more planned there?
    kpeters59 likes this.
  10. Jan 7, 2020 #130 of 150

    Lurker1 Well-Known Member

    Jun 4, 2004
    I don't think TiVo+ is for us. They are going after new customers, many of which have nothing to do and cruise around looking for something to kill time. If they were smart, they would allow existing customers to turn it off before we all leave in disgust.
  11. Jan 7, 2020 #131 of 150

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2005
    Kinda/sorta the reverse of the general TiVo DVR idea: record content you actually want to see and watch it when you have the time (and skip commercials and play the show back sped up besides).
  12. Jan 7, 2020 #132 of 150

    Lurker1 Well-Known Member

    Jun 4, 2004
    Yes, exactly the reverse. But the general TiVo idea has not been very successful (despite its popularity with us) so they are trying to appeal to the much larger reverse market (alienating us in the process). If they were smart, they would include options to appeal to both audiences at the same time.
  13. Jan 7, 2020 #133 of 150

    Fofer Bo55man69

    Oct 29, 2000
    Everything about it just seems so sloppy. Trying to launch it literally freezes my TiVo Mini, forcing me to unplug and replug to be able to use it again. The one time I actually visited the content on the TiVo Roamio Plus, everything about it was crappy. The content and the UI. You couldn’t even trick play. Just stream and pause, IIRC. And there were precisely zero channels of interest.

    Nobody wants this sloppy crap. And the people who are more interested in streaming? Wouldn’t buy a TiVo for this. An AppleTV or Roku or Firestick runs circles around it.
    foghorn2 likes this.
  14. Jan 7, 2020 #134 of 150

    jmccorm Special Forum Guest

    Oct 8, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Smearing TiVo+ around the product reminds me of my post-2000 experience with a late eBay competitor called uBid. Hang with me for a bit, and I'll tie this together. uBid started out as a reasonable enough alternative eBay marketplace. The number of bidders (and sellers) were comparatively small... but on the rise.

    Over time, something happened. Perhaps the organic growth just wasn't happening fast enough. I can only guess that their investors stepped in and twisted the Board of Directors into do a better job of monetizing their platform. So all sorts of awful money grabs started creeping in. (Some direct, some indirect by making certain seller schemes possible which created more corporate revenue through sales commissions.)

    To place a bid, win, and eventually pay for a transaction, a customer needed to jump through a series of landmines (which if failed, resulted in higher costs or unwanted obligations).

    Did you buy three of those awesome $1 hand drills? Too bad uBid did nothing to bring to your attention that they're being shipping at $25 each. A few days later, you won! It's time to pay up and... oh. Okay, there's that massive shipping cost, but even then you missed something else. The item had a minimum order quantity of 5 units! I guess you missed that in the listing, didn't you? uBid knew, but it just didn't feel any obligation to bring that to your attention before you made your bid. So your $3 novelty purchase quickly escalates into a $130 transaction. The Seller wins, uBid wins with increased commissions, and you don't fair so well, do you?

    So you're licking your wounds and ready to pay that $130. Before you check you out, the website asks if you needed a subscription to some obscure university magazine. It's really great. You want that, don't you? No? No? Oh, okay. But I have to ask, as a buyer, did you want to purchase insurance on this transaction? You know, in case something goes wrong? No? Well, okay, I guess that's your choice.

    Soon these kinds of antics transformed uBid into a complete dumpster fire for any kind of reasonable transaction. Their development team was pressured to throw in this-and-that feature in order to extract more incremental revenue from their existing userbase (particularly the buyers, not the sellers). And to add in more revenue generating features. And more. Executives couldn't see they had been sabotging the core of the own product. They were imploding for reasons they couldn't understand.

    Something similar is going on with TiVo DVRs right now.

    Many people adopted TiVo to get away from advertising and to have more control over their DVRs. (My Cox Contour DVR would NOT allow me to remove any channels from the guide. I always had to scroll through the complete listing of all the channels I didn't subscribe to. I'm sure they thought that regularly seeing all the content that they were missing would drive new channel subscriptions. But more than anything, it frustrated their users.) I wanted the control to see only the channels I wanted to see, and nothing more. That's part of why I still use a TiVo. So where are we today?

    Now every screen of TiVo's online program guide is spammed with a fake channel which heralds some aspect of their mediocre third-party application's content. They're also injecting small video advertisements before playing back local recordings. They're doing all the sorts of neat little things to pick up a dime here and a quarter there and in the process they're attacking their customer base. This fervent quest for pocket change ends up undermining the core value of their DVR product. And when you're actively working against the core value of product, you're attacking your attacking your customer base, and you're attacking revenue. Revenue is actually falling because you've hyper-focused on new sources of revenue.

    I can remove every channel from my guide listing except for the fake TiVo+ channels. I bought a TiVo so that I could remove all unwanted channels. I bought a TiVo to avoid advertising. And now you're picking up pocket change to throw advertisements in my face which only end up pissing me off?

    TiVo (and their new parent company) needs to wake up. Yes, in the short term, you can make small incremental improvements to corporate revenue by introducing features which are in complete opposition to the main product and service that you are selling. It really is possible! But why sabotage the product, service, and customer relationship? It isn't financially sustainable, and down the road it will eventually manifest itself as "mysterious and unexplained" losses in new sales and in existing customers. It won't actually be "a changing demographic" or "a product that was ahead of its time" or other such things you might tell yourselves. You violated the the trust of your customers. You sabotaged your own product. These concepts are concrete and pretty easy to understand.

    The existence and in-device promotion of TiVo+ tells me that there is nothing short of mismanagement inside their own ranks and that TiVo probably doesn't even realize it at the top levels. This can quickly turn into a fatal problem.

    Monetization isn't wrong. Adding new revenue generating features isn't wrong. But when the value of those things turn out to be insignificant and they also end up sabotaging the very arguments you've made FOR buying your product, your product is heading for a disaster of your own design.

    Turn it around, TiVo. It isn't too late to pull this one out of a nosedive. Make the smart business decision and pull the plug on these decisions which directly sabotage your own offerings. Those decisions actively attack customers both present and (potentially) future. It is the only intelligent thing to do here. Find a better way and monetize in a way that compliments (not undermines) your product.

    You're probably in more of a unique position to do so than you realize.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  15. Jan 7, 2020 #135 of 150

    Fofer Bo55man69

    Oct 29, 2000
    Well said, I agree.

    And another sad thing is, TiVo's not reading these messages. I get the feeling that those in charge over there aren't even thinking of us as their customer base. Who are their customers? Cable companies and advertisers?
    JACKASTOR, JKR123 and foghorn2 like this.
  16. Jan 8, 2020 #136 of 150

    kdmorse Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 2001
    Germantown, MD
    Yah, it's far from the first product to go down the 'monetize all the eyeballs' route, and it never ends well. Also, we're all doomed. Very doomed.

    Why are we doomed you ask? (I know, you didn't).

    A friend and I were talking about both the pre-roll adds, and Tivo+. And his wife, upon hearing about both of these new potential sources of income, thought it was an *excellent* idea, and genuinely did not understand why we were both so irritated. For as as long as the increased source of revenue is in the short term larger than the drop of subscribers who have truly had it and quit - it is *absolutely* the *obvious* right thing to do. And then taking into account the fact that most folks who get irritated won't get irritated to the point of leaving, they'll just sit and stew, but still use the product, it's win-win.

    She is of course a college professor, subject: Marketing

    Neither a good product, nor a happy subscriber base ever entered the equation. All that matters is a paying subscriber base in the short term. Doomed, we are.
    JACKASTOR and kpeters59 like this.
  17. Jan 8, 2020 #137 of 150

    spiderpumpkin Say no to Hydra!

    Dec 1, 2017
    New Stream + Tivo+ + Preroll Ads + Guide Ads = Fail
  18. Jan 8, 2020 #138 of 150

    Anotherpyr Active Member

    May 6, 2015
    I may have to join you with setting up a Pi-Hole. I appreciate that sites need to make money to pay the bills, but the ad peeps just get too obnoxious.
  19. Jan 8, 2020 #139 of 150

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

    Aug 2, 2003
    Sure. But, think of another company whose customers are advertisers: Google. How did they get to be so dominant? By not being obnoxious to users. Back in the day, their competitors stuffed their front pages with ads, in the name of monetization. Google gave us (and still gives us) a simple, clean page with a logo and a search bar. Guess who won? So even when users are the product and advertisers are the customers, it doesn't have to lead to an unpleasant user experience. TiVo should take a hint from this example.
    mschnebly, stile99 and Mikeguy like this.
  20. Jan 8, 2020 #140 of 150

    blackngold75 Active Member

    Mar 9, 2010
    So, I finally decided to try again to take a look at TiVo+ yesterday (and it actually launched instead of just showing a black screen for several minutes. Success?!?). I was surprised that the content is linear, not on-demand (maybe you already know this but I wasn't really paying attention). Let me be clear that I DO NOT WANT THIS IN MY GUIDE. However, if they really wanted to integrate it into the guide, why don't they show the actual program running at that time instead of a generic "check out Asylum on TiVo+" message in the guide or whatever is in there. I have a bunch of other channels with garbage content I usually blow past so at least it would be consistent with the rest. They should make the TiVo+ content look like other channels in the guide (and then give us the ability to select or de-select those channels in the settings)

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