TCD652 power supply in a TCD648?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by jeremy_lauer, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. jeremy_lauer

    jeremy_lauer New Member

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    I have a dead TCD648 (click, click, click, etc coming from pwr supply with no fan, lights, or video). I have a TCD652 that works fine. Can I put the pwr supply from the TCD652 in the TCD648, temporarily, to see if the pwr supply is the only issue?
     
  2. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Never put a 648 supply in a 652 or 658 (because we don't know what that extra 7.5V DC output--the grey wire--might short to), but you can put a 652/658 supply in a 648.

    However, since it won't have the 7.5V DC output, you can't be sure that a failure of the 648 motherboard to work properly is actually a sign of anything being wrong with it.
     
  3. May 1, 2016 #3 of 19
    jeremy_lauer

    jeremy_lauer New Member

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    The pwr supply was making a clicking noise, no fan, no lights, no video. I replaced the power supply. This got me to a "welcome powering up" loop. Then, I tried doing a long disk check with the western digital diag (from the ultimate boot CD). Everything checked out fine. Next, I made a backup with winmfs. Then restored it on a new drive (after disabling the intellipark using wdidle3). I selected "no" when asked to expand the drive, then I did mfsinfo, then mfsadd. Put the new drive in and got the same thing, "welcome powering up".
    Next I pulled out my old instant cake CD (TiVo software version 9.2a) and ran it on both the new and old hard drives. After emailing DVRupgrade, they said this version should stull work. This did produce different results. Instead of going through a "welcome powering up" loop, it goes to the "just a few minutes more screen" and stalls there. This happens on either drive.
    Next I tried installing the 11m image provided by unitron using winmfs. I did this on both drives, and both get me back to a "welcome powering up loop".
    I checked the voltages on the per supply, and all are good.
    I think I have tried everything. Anyone have any other ideas?
     
  4. May 1, 2016 #4 of 19
    worachj

    worachj Well-Known Member

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    In my eyes it looks like you logically tried and did all the right things. Usually when you get the ‘welcome powering up’ loop it means you can’t read or load from the hard drive.

    Using two different hard drives and doing error checking on them has validated that you have working hard drives. What size are your hard drives?

    So my next thoughts would be bad software, bad install, or wrong version. It’s interesting that the instant cake software gets you passed the ‘welcome powering up’ loop, which means to me that you can read from the hard drive. But it’s an old software version and TiVo isn’t updating the older versions (Maybe that’s the reason it stalls). Don’t know why the 11m version can’t get passed the ‘welcome powering up’ loop.

    It used to be that you could only expand from an original image, but I’ve been told that problem went away with the latest 11m version.

    If it’s worth a try you can try using the 11m version I have in my drop box, but it’s most likely the same copy you’ve already tried. It’s an original image from a 250 gig hard drive.

    TiVo Model 648 backup (250 gig) VERISON 11m
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/l06bh9ffdqvdef4/TiVo Model 648 backup(250 gig) VERISON 11m.tbk?dl=0
     
  5. May 1, 2016 #5 of 19
    jeremy_lauer

    jeremy_lauer New Member

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    I will try your image, but unitron's image is known to be good. The original drive is a Western Digital 500gig Green (don't have model numbers with me). The new drive is a Western Digital 500gig blue drive (again, don't have model numbers with me.)
    Thanks for the help.
     
  6. May 1, 2016 #6 of 19
    worachj

    worachj Well-Known Member

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    The two times I had the ‘welcome powering up’ loop problem after an upgrade attempt was because…
    • I didn’t disable the intellipark using wdidle3
    • I expanded from an image that had already been expanded (160g => 250 g => 500 g). I needed to use an original image and expand once from it.
     
  7. May 1, 2016 #7 of 19
    worachj

    worachj Well-Known Member

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  8. May 1, 2016 #8 of 19
    jeremy_lauer

    jeremy_lauer New Member

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    The drive I've been running on for several years is a WD5000AADS (Caviar Green) 500GB, 32MB Cache.
    The new drive I have been trying is a WD5000AAKX (Blue) 500GB, 16MB Cache.
    I just finished writing zeros to both drives (interestingly, this does not reset the Intellipark (it stayed disabled), so there must be another way to set the drive back to factory default).
    I used the image worachj provided a link to, as well as the version of winmfs he provided a link to, on both drives.
    The only thing I did different is on the Blue drive, I did not do mfsadd, just to see if it made a difference.
    Unfortunately, the results are the same, both do the "Welcome, powering up" loop.
    Thanks for all the help, but it looks like I am stuck.
     
  9. May 2, 2016 #9 of 19
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know, the only way to turn Intellipark on or off is with

    wdidle3.exe

    and as far as I know Intellipark is only available on the WD Caviar Green and Green A/V drives, not the Blues or Blacks or Reds or Purples.

    Of course WD seems to be "blending" the Green and Blue lines together lately, so the above may not be completely accurate anymore.


    The replacement TiVo power supply maybe a little borderline, just enough to seem to have gremlins.

    If you have long enough power and SATA data cables to do it, try powering the hard drive from a PC power supply. This means having the TiVo cover off and the PC cover off and the two close to each other, and you'll have to supply a SATA data cable from the drive to the TiVo motherboard since the TiVo's power and data cables meet up in a single plug.

    Fire up the PC (you could even borrow the power and data cables from the PC's boot drive since you don't need it to do anything except keep its power supply on) with the hard drive already connected to PC power and TiVo motherboard data, and after giving the drive time to spin up, plug in the TiVo power cord and see if you get any farther.

    If you're not using another 648 power supply in that 648, then that may be part of the problem as well.
     
  10. worachj

    worachj Well-Known Member

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    Here's the list from weakness of possible causes of 'Powering up' Loop. You've already tried fixing most things, maybe try replacing cables.

    Possible Causes:
    • Hard drive failure (most likely)
    • Corrupt TiVo software
    • Bad power supply
    • Defect in chip on motherboard
    • Defective hard drive cable or internal power cable
     
  11. jeremy_lauer

    jeremy_lauer New Member

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    Dec 6, 2006
    Unitron, trying an external power supply just for the hard drive is a great idea. I actually tried it (see attached pic). Unfortunately, the results are the same, stuck in "Welcome, powering up" loop.
    I'm going to send it to Weakness to see if they can fix what appears to be a motherboard issue. This is a Lifetime unit.
    Thanks
    P.S. I can disable and enable Intellipark on the Green and Blue drive using WDIDLE3.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    You have to pay $99 for Weaknees to look at the tivo and if they can't fix it you're out $99. If they can fix it you still have to pay more for parts and labor to fix the motherboard. You'll probably wind up paying more than this tivo is worth.
     
  13. jeremy_lauer

    jeremy_lauer New Member

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    Dec 6, 2006
    shwru980r, I disagree with your valuation. It has lifetime service on it and currently Tivo values that at $599.
     
  14. shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    The most expensive one I see on ebay, that didn't have an upgraded hard drive or other accessories, sold for $229.99

    The cheapest one on ebay, that was working, sold for $99.99.

    For what you pay weaknees, you could probably just find another S3 OLED that is working.
     
  15. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Well, to be picky, apparently TiVo isn't selling PLS anymore, at any price.

    (and I'm sure that "All In" has something undesirable lurking in the fine print which is why they changed to that instead of PLS)

    So the value of PLS is whatever the street puts on it.
     
  16. jeremy_lauer

    jeremy_lauer New Member

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    Dec 6, 2006
    I thought about doing the Ebay thing, but you never really know what your getting. I've had some of my Tivo's repaired by Weakness in the past, and thought they were fair with pricing. When I get it back, I'll post how much they charged (assuming they can fix it).
     
  17. shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    You don't know if weaknees can fix your Tivo either and you'll be out $99, if they can't. Since your testing has apparently eliminated the power supply and hard drive, there is a chance they might not be able to fix it.

    The other advantage to having a second working S3 OLED is that you have a working test bed to swap parts with the defective Tivo.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
  18. jeremy_lauer

    jeremy_lauer New Member

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    Dec 6, 2006
    Well, it turns out that the problem was the power supply. Not that the power supply was bad, but the new one I bought was incorrectly advertised as being for a TCD648, when it was really for a TCD652.

    Weakness total cost for eval and new supply was $198, plus now I have a spare power supply for my TCD652.
     
  19. shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    Ok, that sounds similar to my experience with a 652 power supply in a 648. I had 2 spare 652s without service that I bought off of craig's list for $50 about 7 years ago. I verified that both 652's would boot successfully. My 648 started freezing up periodically, so I tried both 652 power supplies and the 648 would never get past the first welcome screen and kept rebooting.

    Then I imaged a new hard drive with winmfs and 648 image from another thread that unitron provided and it would still periodically freeze up with the original 648 power supply and never get past the first welcome screen and keep rebooting with either 652 power supply.

    I wound up sending the 648 power supply to timhbtr53, a Tivo community forum member, and he replaced the capacitors and the 648 worked perfectly. Tim's fee plus shipping both ways was about $40. The 648 is still working after 18 months.

    After that I started having issues with my lifetime 652 periodically freezing up and I used one of the extra 652 power supplies and it resolved the issue.
     

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