Switch From TW "Standard Cable" in Dallas Area?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by naranja, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. naranja

    naranja Member

    Jan 7, 2005


    I'm in Dallas, have two Tivo HDs and am happy with Time Warner Standard Cable *not digital cable*. I like not dealing with cable cards, tuning adapters, or crippled Multi Room Viewing, and the ability to get cable on several other TVs without Tivo or cable box expense. I pay about $90 including tax for the standard cable and internet.

    It looks like I can get Time Warner "digital" or Verizon Fios for around the same price. Better speed and more channels sounds good but if I switch to TW "digital cable" or Fios will I lose MRV on lots of channels? Will I need a tuning adapter and two S cable cards, or just one M cable card? Any issues or problems I need to be aware of? Any feedback appreciated.
  2. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    Jul 6, 2006
    Dayton OH
    With TWC, you will lose MRV and TTG on all channels except copies of local broadcast stations, 99+% probability. TWC is the king of copy protection. You would preferably get one mcard although you could use 2 scards in a TiVo HD, typically $2/mo per card. Whether you need a tuning adapter (free) depends on whether they are using SDV. My guess is they use it in Dallas but someone from that region will probably tell you for sure.

    I hate the unreliability of CableCARD(s) and TA but I use them because after having HD for a few weeks I just can't go back. I think you will end up paying about $10/mo above what you have now.
  3. MeInDallas

    MeInDallas Member

    Jul 31, 2011
    Dallas, Texas
    The way it was explained to me from TWC is that you have the same service level, the cable cards or STB allows you to see the digital channels and high def ones. Of course there are other levels of channels you can add to that like sports and some other channels.

    I used to have my TiVo's connected to my cable until recently and I had 2 M cards, one for each TiVo and the tuning adapters for each one. The cards were $2.99 each per month and the tuning adapters were free. Before they added the tuning adapters and SDV things were perfect, then it all bottomed out once they added the tuning adapters and went to SDV. Now I use their Motorola DVR's and my TiVo's are on OTA. I'm getting free DVR service with them by the way, thats why I use theirs on the cable.
  4. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    Aug 31, 2003
    There's nothing to "deal with". CableCard setup is trivial, and once done, you never have to worry about it again. Installation of the TA is also trivial, althouh the TAs are not stable. Every six weeks or so, you may have to reboot the TA. Note when the TA is not working, you will still probably receive all the channels you do now. If you are not bothered by not getting the SDV channels now, why would you be bothered by not getting them when the TA malfunctions? Very rarely you might suffer a broader failure that requires the TiVo to be rebooted.

    There are some people on TWC that are reportedly having a more persistent issue involving the TA and guide updates. It does not seem to be widespread.

    Unless you modify your TiVos, you will not be able to use TTG or MRV on any channels but the local channels, because TWC sets the CCI byte on everything but the locals. Verizon does not set the CCI byte on any channel at this time, so for the time being, at least, you will be able to freely use MRV or TTG on all the channels you can receive on the TiVo. With FIOS, you will not need a TA.

    You said you have a pair of TiVo HDs. You will need a single M-card for each. They can use two S-cards, but TWC would charge double, then. You need a TA for each if you wish to receive any SDV channel. Your local TWC website should show which channels are SDV.

    Not really. TWC has gotten far better at handling CablCard installation than when I had my first back in 2005. TA issues do exist, but at a pretty low level for most. You might check out the thread concerning the TA and guide issues to see if your area seems to be affected.
  5. DougJohnson

    DougJohnson Member

    Dec 11, 2006


    I'm on TWC in Dallas with an S3 OLED, two S cards, and a tuning adapter. As far as TWC goes, it all works fine. You will need a TA and an M card for each of your TiVos.

    I am one of the people that is having troubles with a TiVo bug related to TAs where TiVo fails to do some housekeeping and eventually complains about running out of guide data. The worst case is you have to put the TA on lamp timer to shut off for about 4 hours every day.

    That said, if I had FIOS available, I'd jump on it.

    -- Doug
  6. naranja

    naranja Member

    Jan 7, 2005
    Excellent information, Thank You!

    All my questions and one I didn't know I had (SDV channels) were answered. I couldn't find a current list of Dallas Time Warner SDV channels but rebooting the TA or a timer would be easy enough if there are SDV channels I was interested in.

    With my current set up I have to call TW retention every 6 months to a year when they raise their rates or my current promotion runs out. I called before my original post and the rep was really pushing the digital package. He told me first I would need one m card for each tivo then said I'd need two s cards, later mentioned tuning adapters and insisted that Video on Demand would work with my Tivos. I knew I would get the straight scoop here.

    If not for losing MRV and Tivo To Go I'd switch to tw digital. I'm probably good for another six months but next time TW jacks up the rates it's off to Fios.

  7. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    Jul 6, 2006
    Dayton OH
    You can't trust what most TWC reps say about TiVo related stuff. They usually are clueless.
    A list of SDV channels is not something TWC usually provides ... since only a few TiVo and Tuner Card users ever care about it. SDV issues are transparent to the 99+% of their digital customers who don't use TiVo's or Tuner Cards. If you can successfully tune a channel, there is a way to tell if it's SDV or not in the Tuning Adapter Diagnostic screens. Of course going through all your channels this way to get an SDV list would take hours.
    I once forced a TWC customer service rep to read me a list of their SDV channels over the phone -- and quickly discovered it was incomplete and inaccurate.

    BTW, if your system is anything like mine, there will definitely be SDV channels you want to receive -- a lot of mainstream HD channels are SDV here.
  8. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    Mar 17, 2005
    I'm shocked no one commented on the fact that you also have the option to get Verizon FIOS. Go for the FIOS immediately. There's no comparison.

    You will need one cable card for each TivoHD. Verizon FIOS doesn't use SDV so you won't need the adapter.

    Verizon FIOS copy protects almost nothing. MRV works just great.

    I've had TW and Verizon FIOS here in Southern California and wouldn't ever go back. Even my wife, who isn't as picky as me, noticed the picture quality improvement with FIOS.

    I get more channels, faster and more reliable internet with FIOS for less money.

    Run, don't walk to your local Verizon office and get FIOS!!!

  9. MeInDallas

    MeInDallas Member

    Jul 31, 2011
    Dallas, Texas
    I totally agree with you on that. ;)
  10. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    Aug 31, 2003
    I disagree. They aren't just clueless. They define a new standard for being clueless. Then they argue with you.

    I think that is probably changing some. I just pulled up a chat session with TWC, and asked them for a list of SDV channels. It took a while, but he did come back with one, and he never argued with me or needed me to explain what SDV is. OTOH, this is a very straightforward question.

    Well, that's not quite true. It is true that the vast majority of subs are unaware of the issues that can arise with SDV, or even what SDV is. For the most part, all they know is, "I can't get all my channels." They chave no inkling of the fact it is a problem with SDV.

    I don't doubt it in the least. I do think, however, that this has improved as the employees have become more familiar with SDV. I also think this is one example where a better answer can be obtained via chat. It is a simple question that requires a little research on the part or the CSR.

    Oh, definitely. Here is the list he provided for San Antonio:

    6 Galavision
    12 TBS 
    20 Public Access 
    21 Government Access New Braunfels 
    25 ESPN2 
    36 Weather Channel 
    36 Weather Channel (New Braunfels) 
    37 CNBC 
    41 ABC Family 
    44 OWN 
    46 TruTV E 
    48 Comedy Central E 
    50 Stuf TV 
    51 CMT 
    53 Hallmark Channel
    55 Animal Planet E 
    56 WE tv 
    58 Travel Channel E 
    62 MSNBC 
    64 Oxygen 
    66 Lifetime Movie Network 
    67 HGTV 
    71 Turner Classic Movies E 
    72 SyFy 
    74 History Channel 
    76 Bravo 
    91 Gems Shopping Network 
    97 Speed 
    98 Educational Access 
    103 Nickelodeon HD 
    113 TBS HD 
    114 AMC HD 
    115 Science Channel HD 
    116 Turner Classic Movies E HD 
    117 CBS College Sports HD 
    118 Big 10 Network HD 
    119 MLB Network HD 
    120 G4 HD 
    121 NBA TV HD 
    122 NHL Network HD 
    123 ESPNU HD 
    125 ESPN2 HD 
    126 ESPNews HD 
    127 TNT HD 
    128 A&E HD 
    129 Discovery Channel HD 
    132 WE tv HD 
    133 MTV HD 
    134 Palladia HD 
    135 CNN HD 
    136 Weather Channel HD 
    137 CNBC HD 
    138 HLN HD 
    139 TruTV E HD 
    140 Planet Green HD 
    141 ABC Family HD 
    142 Disney Channel HD E
    143 Disney XD HD 
    144 Hallmark Channel HD 
    145 Cartoon Network HD 
    146 CMT HD 
    147 Food Network HD 
    148 H2 
    149 TLC HD 
    150 FS Southwest HD 
    151 MavTV HD 
    152 Fox News Channel HD 
    153 Hallmark Movie Channel HD 
    154 Fox Business News HD 
    155 Animal Planet E HD 
    156 Fuse HD 
    157 National Geographic Channel HD 
    158 Travel Channel HD 
    159 FOX Soccer Channel HD 
    160 Golf Channel HD 
    161 Smithsonian Channel HD 
    162 MSNBC HD 
    163 FX E HD 
    164 Universal HD 
    165 MGM HD 
    166 Lifetime Movie Network HD 
    167 HGTV HD 
    168 VERSUS HD 
    169 Speed HD 
    170 Outdoor Channel HD 
    171 Spike TV HD 
    172 SyFy HD 
    173 BET HD 
    174 History Channel HD 
    175 bio HD 
    176 Bravo HD 
    177 Cooking Channel HD 
    178 Tennis Channel HD 
    179 HBO 2 E HD 
    181 HBO W HD 
    183 Showtime W HD 
    184 Cinemax E HD 
    185 Cinemax W HD 
    186 The Movie Channel E HD 
    187 Starz E HD 
    188 Starz W HD 
    189 Comedy Central HD 
    190 Crime and Investigation HD 
    191 Investigation Discovery HD 
    202 Hallmark Movie Channel 
    209 Outdoor Channel 
    227 GSN 
    229 Teennick 
    240 Reelz Channel 
    241 NASA TV 
    242 American Life 
    243 Military History Channel 
    245 Fox Business News 
    246 Crime and Investigation 
    248 Nat Geo Wild 
    249 LOGO 
    250 CMT Pure Country 
    251 Style 
    252 VH1 Soul 
    253 Chiller 
    254 Fox Soccer Plus 
    255 MLB Network 
    256 ESPN Classic
    257 ESPNews 
    258 ESPNU 
    259 ESPN Deportes 
    260 Fox College Sports-Atlantic 
    261 Fox College Sports-Central 
    262 Fox College Sports-Pacific 
    264 FUEL 
    265 CBS College Sports 
    266 NHL Network 
    267 Sportsman Channel 
    268 Big 10 Network 
    269 Fox Soccer Plus HD 
    270 Multimedios 
    271 Discovery Familia 
    272 Latele Novela 
    273 Mexico 22 
    274 Once Mexico 
    275 GolTV 
    276 Sur Mexico 
    278 NUVO 
    280 GolTV HD 
    281 Video Rola 
    282 Cine Latino 
    283 Discovery en Espanol 
    284 ¡SORPRESA! 
    285 Tr3s 
    286 Cartoon Network SAP 
    287 Boomerang SAP 
    288 FOX Deportes 
    289 History En Espanol 
    291 Galavision HD 
    292 DIY HD 
    293 La Familia 
    294 HITN 
    295 EWTN en Espanol 
    296 Disney XD SAP 
    298 TBN Enlace 
    299 Starz Kids & Family E HD 
    315 Starz W 
    316 Starz Edge W 
    317 Starz in Black W 
    319 Starz Cinema W 
    326 HBO W 
    327 HBO 2 W 
    328 HBO Signature 3 W
    29 HBO Family W 
    330 HBO Comedy W 
    331 HBO Zone W 
    333 HBO Latino W 
    334 HBO Signature E HD 
    335 HBO Comedy E HD 
    336 HBO Zone E HD 
    337 HBO Family E 
    344 Cinemax W 
    345 MoreMax W 
    346 Action Max W 
    347 Thriller Max W 
    355 Showtime W 
    356 Showtime Too W 
    357 Showtime Showcase W 
    358 Showtime Extreme W 
    359 Showtime Beyond W 
    360 Showtime Too E HD 
    367 The Movie Channel W 
    368 The Movie Channel Xtra W 
    369 The Movie Channel Xtra E HD 
    370 Showtime Showcase E HD 
    371 HBO Latino E HD 
    372 Action Max E HD 
    373 HSN HD 
    374 Nat Geo Wild HD 
    375 Baby First 
    376 ESPN Buzzer Beater HD 
    377 BBC America HD 
    378 VH1 HD 
    379 Encore E 
    381 Showtime E 
    382 Cinemax E HD 
    383 Starz E HD 
    384 The Movie Channel E HD 
    385 HBO W HD 
    386 Showtime W HD 
    387 Cinemax W HD 
    388 Starz W HD 
    389 5 Star Max E HD 
    390 Playboy 
    391 Starz Edge E HD 
    392 Starz Comedy HD 
    393 Showtime Beyond E HD 
    394 Lifetime HD 
    399 ESPN 3D 
    463 KLRN - PBS Kids Sprout 
    466 Family Net 
    483 Daystar 
    484 EWTN en Espanol 
    486 Halogen 
    487 INSP 
    491 Jewish Life TV 
    495 Word Network 
    498 HD PPV2 
    500 PPV Movie Previews 
    502 Indemand 02 
    503 Indemand 03 
    504 Indemand 04 
    505 Indemand 05 
    506 Indemand 06 
    507 Indemand 07 
    540 Playboy 
    541 Playboy en Espanol 
    542 Penthouse PPV 
    601 NBA League Pass TEAM 1 
    602 NBA League Pass TEAM 2 
    603 NBA League Pass TEAM 3 
    604 NBA League Pass TEAM 4 
    605 NBA League Pass TEAM 5 
    606 NBA League Pass TEAM 6 
    607 NBA League Pass TEAM 7 
    608 NBA League Pass TEAM 8 
    609 NBA League Pass TEAM 9 
    610 NBA League Pass TEAM 10
    612 NBA League Pass /MLS Direct Kick TEAM HD 
    620 ESPN Full Court 1 
    621 ESPN Full Court 2 
    622 ESPN Full Court 3 
    623 ESPN Full Court 4 
    624 ESPN Full Court 5 
    625 ESPN Full Court 6 
    627 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 1 
    628 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 2 
    629 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 3 
    630 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 4 
    631 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 5 
    632 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 6 
    633 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 7 
    634 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 8 
    635 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 9 
    636 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 10 
    637 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 11 
    638 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 12 
    639 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 13 
    640 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 14 
    641 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME HD 
    642 MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice GAME 2HD
    650 ESPN Full Court 1 
    651 ESPN Full Court 2 
    652 ESPN Full Court 3 
    653 ESPN Full Court 4 
    654 ESPN Full Court 5 
    655 ESPN Full Court 6 
    660 MLS Direct Kick - See Notes 
    661 MLS Direct Kick - See Notes 
    662 MLS Direct Kick - See Notes 
    663 MLS Direct Kick - See Notes 
    701 TV Japan 
    705 SBTN - Saigon Broadcasting
    711 ZEE TV 
    712 TV Asia
    715 Deutche Welle 
    720 Filipino 
    780 Cine Mexicano 
    781 Viendo 
    787 CBTV 
    788 Teleformula 
    790 AYMS 
    800 Liquidation TV 
    801 Shop Zeal 4 
    802 Shop Zeal 1 
    803 Jewelry Television 
    805 Cornerstore TV 
    806 America's Auction Network 
    807 Shop Zeal 5 
    808 Shop Zeal 2 
    809 Gems Shopping Network 
    810 Shop Zeal 3 
    888 Texas Channel 
    889 Canal de Tejas
    1997 Reelz Channel
    That's 300 channels, and at least 30 or so are significantly interesting to me, with about 30 more being of occasional interest. That's about 960 programs a day that are potentially of interest.
  11. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    Aug 31, 2003
    No, the FCC does not require the CATV operator to provide interactive programming oher than SDV, and so - strictly by policy- they do not. There is no technical reason they could not. It's the same mechanism.

    Note this is not the case with FIOS. All of their interactive services are IPTV.

    At this time, FIOS is certainly a better choice, if it is available. That may change at any time. Certainly in my case I have no issues with MRV or TTG, but setting that aside for a moment, there are only 14 channels in which I have any interest at all that are not SDV, and only 5 of those are ones from which I record regularly. Compare that with 60+ SDV channels I find interesting and more than 30 from which I record fairly regularly. All of them are HD.
  12. naranja

    naranja Member

    Jan 7, 2005
    Well, six months later and Time Warner has jacked up my rates again so I ordered Fios and they are coming out to install this Friday. My current Season Passes are a combitination of Time Warner Channels and OTA antenna. I have no passes for premium channels like HBO. I want to switch them all to Verizon.

    I assume I'll go to Messages & Settings > Reset or Restart > Repeat Guided Setup to let my HD Tivo's know they are now on Verizon and they can get the new line-up. Will Season Passes automatically migrate to the new channels? or should I back them up online with the "Season Pass Manager" and restore that way? The latter is not currently configured as my privacy settings are set not to share with Tivo.

    Thanks for any advice and anything else I should look out for.
  13. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2001
    I can't give definitive word, but I believe all "networks" (I don't mean OTA) that carry over should have their SPs properly convert over to the other cable system.

    you could try online backup too, beforehand, just to make sure..
  14. Teeps

    Teeps Well-Known Member

    Aug 16, 2001

    With Time Warner here in Torrance, CA; my S3 suffers the same malady as yours.
  15. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    It must be so nice to have an alternative to TWC.:(
  16. andrews777

    andrews777 Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    I have had Fios with my Tivo HDs (3 of them now, purchased over time) along with 1 Premiere and I only had an odd cable card problem once. I was getting random channel troubles and it turned out one of the s-cards had gone bad.

    I swapped it out for m-cards (released since my initial install) and I have not had a problem since.

    One TivoHD does seem to regularly lose guide data which I thought was a networking issue, but I will have the check out the other problems I just read about. Otherwise things are working fine.

    I hate the $2.99/month fee per cable card, but I don't see much choice in that. All my Tivo units have lifetime service on them.

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